Inline FabricationLee PrecisionRepackboxMidSouth Shooters Supply
ADvertise hereRotoMetals2Reloading UKTitan Reloading

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: 777 for .44 Russian - Where can I find Loading Tables?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680

    777 for .44 Russian - Where can I find Loading Tables?

    I am not finding any Loading Tables for "777" and Metallic Cartridges.

    Hodgdon's web site only seems to have run-arounds, dead ends, or to divert me to other Propellants.

    If I understand correctly, 777 Granules will equal a Black Powder Load, if one uses 15 percent less by Volume, of it, than of the Black Powder.

    I have this worked out for Loading some .44 Russian, but I did want to see what the Loading Tables have to say.

    Where are the Loading Tables for '777' and Hand Gun Cartridges?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy hockeynick39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South of San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    218
    You won't find any. I loaded some 10.6x25R for my 1883 Reichsrevolver using shortened cases and some Hodgdon 777. Don't remember how I came up with a load for it, but it took a lot of research and reading before I decided on a load. Anyway, ended up going with a load of Unique because it was more accurate than the 777.

    https://www.shootersforum.com/blackp...artridges.html

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by hockeynick39 View Post
    You won't find any. I loaded some 10.6x25R for my 1883 Reichsrevolver using shortened cases and some Hodgdon 777. Don't remember how I came up with a load for it, but it took a lot of research and reading before I decided on a load. Anyway, ended up going with a load of Unique because it was more accurate than the 777.

    https://www.shootersforum.com/blackp...artridges.html

    Ahhhhh...well...shucks...

    I could have sworn they used to have Published Loading Tables for "777"...I remember reading through them about 10 or 12 years ago when I was using "777" for .38 Special and .45 Colt.

    Thanks for the Link!

    I just want some Target Rounds for use at the indoor Range, where they of course do not allow Black Powder.

    So, I can reduce even below the 15 percent calculation ( volume to volume ) and be just fine I expect.

    I weighed my 23 Grains of BP, noted the volume in the Case...took a 2nd Case, put in that volume of '777'...

    Weighed that volume of the '777'...

    Did the math on what 85 percent of that weight of the 'equal volume' of '777' would be...to determine the ( "15 percent less" ) '777' Charge.

    I'll do it again now and elect an 80 percent instead, since really I am just going to be doing Paper Target at 25 Yards, so, this ought to be just fine.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in ILL-Nois for some months
    Posts
    6,415
    Good afternoon
    Are you loading for a repro or an original ?
    Personally I would not load any substitute powder in an original. And 777 with no loading data could mean your expensive original, especially a S&W, is now worth far less than a repro. The substitutes can get compression sensitive real fast.
    I have loaded 777 in a repro muzzle loader revolver. Working up the load slow when it reached the "oops" to much the recoil and blast was well beyond reasonable. Be careful.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    Good afternoon
    Are you loading for a repro or an original ?
    Personally I would not load any substitute powder in an original. And 777 with no loading data could mean your expensive original, especially a S&W, is now worth far less than a repro. The substitutes can get compression sensitive real fast.
    I have loaded 777 in a repro muzzle loader revolver. Working up the load slow when it reached the "oops" to much the recoil and blast was well beyond reasonable. Be careful.
    Mike in Peru
    Original...a "New Model 3" S & W.

    I ended up going with 13.5 Grains of '777', which is quite a bit less than the volume I would have had, if I had elected to use 85 percent by Volume, of what the 23 Grains of Black Powder volume would have been.

    182 Grain flat front Wadcutter for the Boolits...so, quite a bit lighter than the 246 Grain of the original Loadings.

    I compressed by hand, just pressing the Boolit so it would be to depth and lined up for the crimp, so, just a nice push with between Thumb and bend index Finger knuckle...and Crimped on the Loading Press, so, the compression was/is mild.

    Ten years ago or so, I was loading .38 Special with '777' and I just put in as much in to the Case, as would end up being compressed a little bit ( 1/16th of an inch or so ) in seating the Bullet...those all seemed fine, normal, regular.

    It turns out I could not really fit the '85 percent' by Volume, of '777' of what 23 Grains of Black Powder volume would be, without the Bullet having too little room to fit far enough in to reach the Crimp location...so, if only compressing '777' a tiny bit, there would not even be enough room in the case for the '85%' of the Black Powder volume, of it...and to still seat a Bullet to normal depth.

    So I elected to reduce the volume of '777'.

    These Cartridges are just for fun, and to plink a little at an indoor Range ( where they do not allow Black Powder ) so mild-ish Loadings are fine.

    If you think this is not a good idea to use '777' for this, I can inertia-pull the Boolits from the Cartridges I have prepared, put the Powder back in the container, save it for something else...and just not use the '777' for my old S & W .44 Russian Revolver...or, I have a Colt 'New Service" I would use them in.

    I have a few Hundred nice Black Powder Cartridges done up for the old New Model 3...just no where to shoot them! Lol...
    Last edited by Oyeboten; 07-14-2019 at 02:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,299
    Can you describe the nature of your 13.5 grs of 777 as to how it shoots, force of the discharge, ?how stressful it appears to the gun, etc. Very interested on loads for old S&W's top breaks.
    Last edited by 725; 07-14-2019 at 08:57 AM. Reason: correcting spell check

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by 725 View Post
    Can you describe the nature of your 13.5 grs of 777 as to how it shoots, force of the discharge, ?how stressful it appears to the gun, etc. Very interested on loads for old S&W's top breaks.
    If I elect to keep them and try them, sure...

    Lol...

    Now I am feeling all flustered about whether to just pull the Boolits and say the heck with it...

    We'll see...

    If I end up using these Cartridges I'll be glad to report back with my "Range Report".

    Unless things are way outside of what they should be, these would be pretty mild Loads, and likely be not much above half the energy of the original Black Powder Loading.

    Otherwise, if you have a place to shoot outdoors, just use Black Powder!

    It is by far my very most favorite for any Hand Gun Cartridge which was originally a Black Powder Cartridge.

    I have not fired my 'New Model 3' yet to have any feel for 'standard' Loading, to compare these Loads to, far as that goes.

    I need to find my Chrongraph also ( even though there is no way to use it with the indoor Range )...I had it sitting next to my Desk for Months, then did a heroic House Cleaning for out of Town guests, no idea where I put it! Eeeeesh!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold henryinpanama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lufkin, Texas
    Posts
    22
    Hodgdon does not make it easy to find, but they do have 777/Pyrodex load data on line. Here's the link.

    https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploa...anual_2008.pdf
    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  10. #10
    Hello Oyeboten,

    I have some info saved,

    "Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNINGS below."

    WARNING: Never allow an air space in any cartridge loaded with Pyrodex. The loading density must be 100% by light compression. 100% loading density may be accomplished in two ways:
    The case is filled with powder to a level that will provide light compression of the powder (1/16" to 1/8") when the bullet is seated. Bottle necked cases must be loaded in this manner.
    In straight walled cases, filler wads may be used to reduce the powder charge. This is done by inserting card or Polyethylene wads between the base of the bullet and the powder. Wads should be sized to the internal diameter of the cartridge case. The loader must be careful to insure that there are no void spaces in the assembled cartridge. NEVER use any other type of filler material. Be careful as loads are reduced. At some point, the bullet will fail to exit the bore.
    When loading cartridges with Pyrodex or Triple Seven, you may use a powder measure designed for smokeless powders. Learn more.
    Pyrodex does produce a corrosive residue from combustion. Even though this fouling is softer than the fouling produced by blackpowder, firearms should be cleaned after each use. Hodgdon Powder Co. recommends the use of natural cleaning solvents.
    Cartridge cases that have been fired using Pyrodex require special care. As soon as possible after firing, cases should be de-primed and immersed in 50% water and white vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar will neutralize the corrosive residues remaining in the case. Care should be taken to limit the soaking time of the cases in the vinegar to 10 minutes. Soaking for a longer time may cause etching of the brass case resulting in shortened case life. Rinse cases with clear water, dry and polish in a tumbler with corncob or walnut shell media."

    Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in ILL-Nois for some months
    Posts
    6,415
    Or forget all that and load near case full of 3F goex with a cereal box wad and a 240-250 grain range scrap slug and blast away. 25 years and counting the fun.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by henryinpanama View Post
    Hodgdon does not make it easy to find, but they do have 777/Pyrodex load data on line. Here's the link.

    https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploa...anual_2008.pdf
    Thank you henryinpanama..!

    I'll save the link!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiqueSledMan View Post
    Hello Oyeboten,

    I have some info saved,

    "Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNINGS below."

    WARNING: Never allow an air space in any cartridge loaded with Pyrodex. The loading density must be 100% by light compression. 100% loading density may be accomplished in two ways:
    The case is filled with powder to a level that will provide light compression of the powder (1/16" to 1/8") when the bullet is seated. Bottle necked cases must be loaded in this manner.
    In straight walled cases, filler wads may be used to reduce the powder charge. This is done by inserting card or Polyethylene wads between the base of the bullet and the powder. Wads should be sized to the internal diameter of the cartridge case. The loader must be careful to insure that there are no void spaces in the assembled cartridge. NEVER use any other type of filler material. Be careful as loads are reduced. At some point, the bullet will fail to exit the bore.
    When loading cartridges with Pyrodex or Triple Seven, you may use a powder measure designed for smokeless powders. Learn more.
    Pyrodex does produce a corrosive residue from combustion. Even though this fouling is softer than the fouling produced by blackpowder, firearms should be cleaned after each use. Hodgdon Powder Co. recommends the use of natural cleaning solvents.
    Cartridge cases that have been fired using Pyrodex require special care. As soon as possible after firing, cases should be de-primed and immersed in 50% water and white vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar will neutralize the corrosive residues remaining in the case. Care should be taken to limit the soaking time of the cases in the vinegar to 10 minutes. Soaking for a longer time may cause etching of the brass case resulting in shortened case life. Rinse cases with clear water, dry and polish in a tumbler with corncob or walnut shell media."

    Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.
    Thank you AntiqueSledman..!

    Turns out the only indoor range around does not want anyone using '777', so...

    Finally did try out the old New Model 3 with Standard Me-Load Loadings and 3F Swiss, and it was a joy...stout! It felt like I was firing .45 Colt.

    Turns out a friend here has an old Farm with some old abandoned Railway embankments, and I am good to go any time, so, perfect backdrop for plinking!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    Or forget all that and load near case full of 3F goex with a cereal box wad and a 240-250 grain range scrap slug and blast away. 25 years and counting the fun.
    My possible use of 777 for .44 Russian was for an indoor Range which prohibits Black Powder use.

    However, some while after I had posted, it turned out a friend of mine here has an old Farm which has some nice places on it for Shooting, with good Backdrop.

    And, it turned out that the indoor Range also prohibits 777, so...

    I am good-to-go with my Black Powder Rounds for outdoor Target shooting, near by, on the old Farm...which is so much nicer than the indoor Range anyway.

    Just been so busy with Work, hardly any time for anything else most of this year so far...eeeesh...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check