12 Gauge .735 Round Ball Results

[Mayor]

I am waiting for my .735 Lyman mold to get delivered so I have no loads to talk about yet but I have tried many different Tri-ball loads exactly as Dixie Slugs loading info with 3" fiochii hulls and Precision Reloading wads and 28
grains of Blue Dot and haven't had great results. one shell would eject fine with no pressure signs and the next one
would stick in chamber and show minor signs but only slight marks at the rim. IT could just be my gun as far as the ejection problem goes but I can't get good grouping with this load so far. This is with 3 .600 hard balls. I am loading more with 26 gr. and 24 gr. to try out. When I get my Lyman .735 mold I will try single ball loads to compare to my LEE slug loads. I am also having good results with a 2 .600 2 ball load in a 2 3/4 cheditte hull over 23 gr. Green Dot and it grouped good at 50 yds. Sometimes I get 2 holes touching then the next shot is 4" lower and holes 2" apart which I am pleased with. still working on that load.

If I had to venture a guess about your inconsistancies with these loads I would say that the .600 RB would be the issue. It is quite a bit under sized for the bore and is probably letting your gas seal blow out or pressure to blow by it since it doesn't present a "flat" surface against the seal like a load of shot and it is too far away from the inside of the bore.

A .690 like the feller posting before you would fix that.
The .735 you spoke of would probably require a this brass hull like the CBC/Magtech.

[GBertolet]

Here are two attached photo's of recovered .737 RB's cast from the Lyman mold. My mold casts slightly oversize, and my slugs weigh out at 600.5 gr cast from pure lead. These were fired in an Ithica 37, with a .727 groove diameter barrel. 42 gr of Blue Dot was the powder charge, and they were wrapped with teflon tape. Since then I have aquired a NEF Slug Hunter which I now prefer for the RB. At over 11lb with scope and sling, plus 5 rounds of ammo on an elastic butt stock ammo holder, recoil is tolerable. Notice how the RB's are flat around the equator, and they are no longer quite round as a result of being fired. They were recovered from a dirt bank. I think RB's would have lower pressure than identical loads with Forster slugs, or even shot, due to the small bearing surface.

[longbow]

Yow! 42 grs. of Blue Dot! OUCH!

I shot 0.735" RB's (cast 0.736" and weighed 585 grs. cast from wheelweights) from a rifled Remington 870 with a HARD recoil pad and got slapped silly at 38 grs. of Blue Dot. The load I based mine on was from Precision Rifle for their 610 gr. Piledriver which they loaded over up to 44 grs. Blue Dot!!! OUCH! again.

I must be getting old and soft but those loads form a bench are a bit more than I like.

Anyway, my conclusion was the same as yours. I was a bit concerned that the balls were 0.007" over my smoothbore bore diameter but a light tap with a mallet and dowel swaged that small bearing area down easily. My concerns disappeared after that. They shot well from my smoothbore and better from the rifled gun and it too had a groove diameter of 0.727". Yours in pure lead should swage even easier than my harder alloy though they are somewhat larger. They are obviously working for you.

Recovered balls look much the same as yours but with a slightly smaller "belt" around them.

I do like the round ball loads.

Longbow

[littlejack]

Has anyone considered the fact that; the .735 balls when fired and being forced down the barrel, will no longer be "round".
The distortion of the ball and making it "dirt clod" shaped, would have a definite impact on accuracy.
I believe that the "rounder" the balls are when leaving the muzzle, the straighter they will shoot. If you look at the photos above, there are areas that the wind deflection would have a bad time with. If one looks at it from the "ballistic coefficient" point of view, the ball in the photo will have a different BC as it turns "when the wind deflects it".
As for a round round ball, the BC will bot change due to shape. The BC will not change as it is, or if it is rotated going down range.
Now I realize that you are shooting from a "smooth" bore, and I am shooting from a rifled bore. I still
believe the same rules apply to both when firing round balls.
If I were shooting down a smooth bore, I would start with a ball of "bore diameter". I would lube it with something. Then I would load a seal wad over the powder. Add the appropriate amount of filler wads (if needed). Then find/make a relatively thick cradling wad that would be bore diameter, and nestle the ball in the same shape as the ball. Then the crimp of choice.
I may do some testing on this after the other hundreds of testing I want to do.

So, in my humble opinion, and in my own casting and reloading technique, I will probably:
1. Cast my balls hard.
2. Cast by balls undersize. At this time in testing, .680 diameter.
3. Load my hard cast balls into a wad cup (WAA12 White) that will take the rifling, absorb "some" of the distortion of the rifling on the balls perimeter, keeping it as round as possible.
Just my humble opinion.
Regards
Jack

[savage308]

thanks for the input Mayor. the precision reloading wads I am using are cupped at the bottom as if they were designed
for the .600 round balls and none of the recovered wads have any sign of powder blowby at the base and most look great . The problems are with extraction and poor grouping of the 3 balls. the 2 ball load is looking good but still playing with both at the moment. the .735 Lyman round ball mould is on the way and I have much reading to do before I load that one. I am using COWW and water drenching the .600 balls and the are slightly deforming just where they touch in the wad. I am using buffer as recommended by DIXIE. thanks again.

[longbow]

littlejack:

In my case the 0.735" round ball is only 0.006" over bore diameter so there is almost no belt. Regardless, they will shoot into 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards pretty much all the time if the wad column is good and into 2" groups from rifled barrel.

I recovered balls from deep snow and while there is a small "belt" around the equator, it is small and seems to have little if any effect on accuracy.

If a 0.729"/0.730" mould had been readily available I probably would have bought one (yes I know Jeff Tanner can make them but that is order in), I just bought a Lyman.

It works well for me.

Longbow

[GBertolet]

I am also getting groups with the RB in the 2" range at 50 yards from the rifled NEF Slug Hunter. Sometimes even better than that. I don't believe that the obturation of the RB has any effect on the accuracy at all. As long as the ball is in balance, the changing of the profile won't matter. Another factor to consider, hull condition has as much effect as anything on accuracy, whether it be RB or slug. Best accuracy is with new hulls, or once fired at most. It most likely has something to do with the weakening crimp strength, due to softening of the plastic. Lots of frustration in consistency using multi time fired hulls. You can get a bag of 100 primed hulls from Ballistic products for around $10-$15.

[littlejack]

G:
Not wanting to argue, but if you think "obturation" has no effect on accuracy, then why do shot manufacturers try to get their shot as round as possible? Out of round shot will mess up a pattern faster than anything else.
That being said, what make you think that an out of round "round ball" will fly true. Shape it like an egg, or have a flat side on it, and it will have an effect on how it flies.
Just sayin
Jack

[longbow]

Jack:

He is shooting from rifled barrel so really it is a football shaped boolit rather than flat based.

I believe you are right if that shape was being shot form a smoothbore. It would pick up a spin from drag/turbulence than then it would veer off course fairly quickly.

My 0.735" round balls are slightly over bore diameter and do get a small "belt" around them but very small. Certainly to 50 yards it has little if any effect as those tend to shoot groups of 3" to 4", every bit as good as round ball in shotcup loads where there is no distortion of the ball.

Don't forget, those are recovered from teh berm so the flat distorted "nose" was not like that when it was fired. Only the cylindrical belt which rotates around the "long" axis so unbalance and no "edges" to catch the air.

Longbow

[GBertolet]

Littlejack, Longbow is correct, the RB flies true, nose first, as it is spun by the rifling, just like any rifle bullet. Where as birdshot, or a RB from a smoothbore, when in flight is tumbling, constantly offering different aerodynamic profiles, deflecting the shot or RB's flight. In this case, the truer the roundness, the more accurate the flight. In a smoothbore your diagnosis is correct, but adding rifling changes everything.

[littlejack]

I agree fellas.
Keep all balls balanced and round.
Good verbal jousting, huh?
Jack

[Mayor]

I agree fellas.
Keep all balls balanced and round.
Good verbal jousting, huh?
Jack

I'm still getting over my balls being swaged and tumbling in flight!