Reloading EverythingRepackboxRotoMetals2Lee Precision
Inline FabricationWidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan Reloading
Load Data
Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 163

Thread: Divorce and suicide

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Monterey Tennessee
    Posts
    2,030
    No, I didn't read the verses you quoted. Been around for a long time and the one thing I learned with absolute certainty is the ability of a christian to cherry pick verses to suit their agenda. My opinion comes from my heart and soul.
    East Tennessee

  2. #82
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West Tennessee
    Posts
    2,160
    [QUOTE if one was truly a Christian [/QUOTE]

    I love this statement! Now, let's turn it around, shall we, after all, 2+2=4=4-2=2. If one commits suicide, then obviously he was never a Christian and is going to hell. Replace suicide with any other sin you wish.

    Consider this verse: 1Jo 1:7

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

    Does this verse, and others like it, not teach the we have an obligation to fulfill in order to be forgiven? Doesn't " but" imply that if we don't live it, we won't be forgiven? Sin can't enter into God's presence!

    I'm not the judge, God alone holds that honor, but to my way of thinking, suicide is the ultimate slap to God's face, the ultimate denial of his power, the ultimate rejection that he has a plan for your life! What if Daniel had killed himself instead of being thrown into the lions den, or Joseph rather than be a slave, and the list goes on and on! How pleased do you think God will be with you, should you decide to take yourself out of His plans? After all, we all know what's in our future, what's best for us, and we see the big picture so clearly, that we know better than GOD!

    Consider the next verses: 1Jo 1:8-9
    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    More works required of us? This verse doesn't say who to confess them to. But it does appear we have to "Do" or fulfill "works".

  3. #83
    Boolit Man
    PowPow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    if one was truly a Christian
    I love this statement! Now, let's turn it around, shall we, after all, 2+2=4=4-2=2. If one commits suicide, then obviously he was never a Christian and is going to hell. Replace suicide with any other sin you wish.

    Consider this verse: 1Jo 1:7

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

    Does this verse, and others like it, not teach the we have an obligation to fulfill in order to be forgiven? Doesn't " but" imply that if we don't live it, we won't be forgiven? Sin can't enter into God's presence!

    I'm not the judge, God alone holds that honor, but to my way of thinking, suicide is the ultimate slap to God's face, the ultimate denial of his power, the ultimate rejection that he has a plan for your life! What if Daniel had killed himself instead of being thrown into the lions den, or Joseph rather than be a slave, and the list goes on and on! How pleased do you think God will be with you, should you decide to take yourself out of His plans? After all, we all know what's in our future, what's best for us, and we see the big picture so clearly, that we know better than GOD!

    Consider the next verses: 1Jo 1:8-9
    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    More works required of us? This verse doesn't say who to confess them to. But it does appear we have to "Do" or fulfill "works".
    You and I see things a bit differently, but the difference is not tragic. It's only a question about where the choice and power of salvation lies. I believe that I was born in the condition of sin, lost in that condition of my sinful nature, and had absolutely no escape nor way to earn myself out of that condition through any power or contribution of my being. It's called total depravity. Yes, I'm, a Calvinist. In no way am I saying that I am without sin. Far from it. My salvation from that condition came from only one place and one act - the Almighty God of the universe reached His hand into my flesh as it were and changed my heart. If not for that act, I would still be lost in my sin. With a changed heart, I am often able to see my sin, and sometimes can catch myself before I do. But, I am still a creature who sins. However, the difference is that I understand this about myself. When the time comes and God looks upon me, he will see Christ standing in front of me. If not for Christ, the totality of my sin would surely be my eternal ruin.

    To flip the coin, I could be completely self-deluded, think I'm a Christian, and carry on happily through this life. Who would know differently? Absolutely there is the fruit of the Spirit and desire to do works. Those are outward signs of the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit for sure, and not seeing any might be a sign. But, in the end, the Almighty will have that say for each of us. Will you approach Him with boldness and assurance at the appointed time? Will God see Christ instead of you?

    Assuming one were Christian, and the answers above seem to be in the affirmative, they're still a sinner and capable of just about any sin imaginable including suicide. Suicide, however it could transpire, is likely not pleasing to God (unless, maybe, the person does a Samson-like act). That sin would still be forgiven just like any other for the same reason that a murder could be saved: Christ.
    SAF Patron (Life) | GOA (Life) | NRA Benefactor (Life) | MSRPA (Life)

  4. #84
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Derby, UK.
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    You kill yourself your going to hell, end of story. Why? You committed murder and since you killed yourself you can't ask for forgiveness. Twist it any other way you like and your only kidding yourself.
    A perfect description of the eagerness with which some 'Christians' will **** a man to the eternal torture of hell. No thought of mental illness, of stress incurred beyond endurance, of any human failing, just the sense of "I'm perfect and I'm not sharing heaven with any of that sort of scum."

  5. #85
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West Tennessee
    Posts
    2,160
    "Suicide, however it could transpire, is likely not pleasing to God (unless, maybe, the person does a Samson-like act)."

    If seems many here don't see a difference between suicide, and sacrifice. Look into how Saul died, (suicide), and Sampson, (sacrifice), Judas, (suicide). Is it suicide to charge into a fire fight if you know your under gunned, for the chance you could save your comrades? Is it suicide if a solider puts his pistol under his chin rather than be captured? Once again God's the judge, but it appears the solder had taken what is God's to take. What about the man that's been cought in a huge embezzlement that takes his life, rather than let God continue to work in that life? After all, was not a large portion of what we call the New Testament written by men either in prison or exile? What if these men had chosen suicide rather than suffering? The Bible is full of examples of God using evil for good, and suffering to bring great hope and joy. Again God's the judge, but I think there's ample proof it's very dangerous grounds to walk.

    Let's please stop confusing ultimate sacrifice (selfless), with suicide (selfish)!

  6. #86
    Banned



    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Color Me Gone
    Posts
    8,401
    I am not pro suicide or divorce
    But I never walked a mile in anyone else's shoes
    So, I see no point in stating the obvious
    Everyone has sinned
    We all get to discuss that with God directly
    The Bible is repleate with discussion on divorce which is best avoided but not an unforgivable sin
    The Bible is silent on suicide, but assuming it is a sin, and I am not say it is or is not, it is still not an unforgivable sin. No one can say it is a sin absent any such designation in the Bible, it would just be their opinion.
    Worry about your owns sins if you are into condemnation

  7. #87
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    No, I didn't read the verses you quoted. Been around for a long time and the one thing I learned with absolute certainty is the ability of a christian to cherry pick verses to suit their agenda. My opinion comes from my heart and soul.
    Ah. You don't bother to read the scripture because your own heart and soul determines what's true or untrue no matter what scripture itself says. And, thereby, you reject all of us who dare to cite the Bible? That's an odd but interesting thought.

    That mindset, i.e., man's desire to be his own god and self determine what is right and wrong, what's good vs. evil is common and old; in fact it's man's original sin. It's exactly what motivated Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because, in doing so, they expected to become like God themselves. But, their own hearts and souls were quick sand and it's still some very shaky ground for anyone to stand on my friend!

    Now I'm pretty smart (just ask me ), but I don't believe I'm smarter than God. Well, I actually KNOW I'm not all that smart and I KNOW God doesn't care a bit what I think in my heart and soul anyway (Isaiah 55:8-9)! So, no matter what I think should be right or wrong, I'll follow God as it's written in the Bible. After all, that IS why he gave it to us!

    No part of our own intense "heart and soul" theology on any spiritual question, including the eternal security of imperfect born-again believers and stumbling disciples of Lord Jesus. We don't impress God with our opinions. Man measures other men by what they can see but God measures the hearts of all men (Jer 17:10). Bottom line, the only sin that sends people to hell is failure to come to Jesus, not because they haven't confessed to sin before they died.

    So, about your heart felt desire to correct or improve scripture ... well, you have company, other people do it too. BUT, they are totally adrift in really deep, dark, shark filled waters and that's really unsafe (see Prov 3:5-6)! Truth is, once we are saved, we are always saved .... including those few sick and hurting believers who are so distressed by life they chose to commit suicide. If any soul goes to hell it's because they haven't truly received Christ as Lord, not because they died before they "confessed" any sin.

    I'm sure you're a good person and mean well. May God bless you and grant you true peace through a better faith and Biblical insight, sir!

  8. #88
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Monterey Tennessee
    Posts
    2,030
    Keep on quotin. See how easy it is to find the exact verse to back up any argument you want to?
    East Tennessee

  9. #89
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    You kill yourself your going to hell, end of story. Why? You committed murder and since you killed yourself you can't ask for forgiveness. Twist it any other way you like and your only kidding yourself.

    I am going to say it here but it applies to other responses, some that I agree with and some I disagree with. Killing yourself is a sin if it causes others more pain than it avoids. If the act is selfish it is a sin and if it is selfless it is not.

    Same deal with divorce.

    Tim
    Last edited by dtknowles; 06-28-2019 at 09:04 PM.
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #90
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by PowPow View Post
    I believe that I was born in the condition of sin, lost in that condition of my sinful nature, and had absolutely no escape nor way to earn myself out of that condition through any power or contribution of my being. It's called total depravity. Yes, I'm, a Calvinist.
    Ol' John Calvin was a brilliant and Godly man but still a man; he wasn't infallible or perfect. His illumination into deep points of scripture has impacted orthodox Christianity for good than most people realize.

    The "Five Points of Calvanism", including the first, i.e., "Total Depravity" came from John's followers, not from him. And misunderstanding the "Total" point has led to some 5 hundred years of harsh and unfair attacks against him. But John's followers who framed the Five Points didn't mean everyone is totally depraved in the human morality sense. They only meant the unsaved are so totally SPIRITUALLY corrupted they cannot, of themselves, even want to seek God and that's true. Thus, teaching this, they wanted everyone to credit the Holy Spirit for giving people the "want to" as well as drawing them to seek salvation by God. And, I think most believers can see that, from start to finish, salvation is only by God. I totally agree on that point with the Calvanists.

    There is no special denomination, no exotic theology, no "holy" traditions, no "holy water", no unknown languages to speak, no hoops to jump through, no rings to kiss, no amount of money to be contributed, etc. and no amount of good deeds can convey salvation; it's entirely spiritual between God and each individual.

  11. #91
    Moderator Emeritus


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SW Montana
    Posts
    12,452
    Currently it is possible to become divorced while not wishing it to happen. By definition suicide makes that impossible.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  12. #92
    Boolit Man
    PowPow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Let's please stop confusing ultimate sacrifice (selfless), with suicide (selfish)!
    I'm not confusing it, but I see your point. It is possible to view ending one's own life in terms of self-sacrifice and self-suicide (as well as assisted-suicide). From an outside view of it, God is the only one who knows which it is and whether it was sin or not. Nothing more can be said or known about it.

    That is why I continued with the further examination of one's eternal condition. If Christ stands before one in the presence of the Almighty, the words used to describe any act in their life (regardless of whether it is sinful) matter not. They are seen as justified.
    SAF Patron (Life) | GOA (Life) | NRA Benefactor (Life) | MSRPA (Life)

  13. #93
    Boolit Man
    PowPow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Ol' John Calvin was a brilliant and Godly man but still a man; he wasn't infallible or perfect. His illumination into deep points of scripture has impacted orthodox Christianity for good than most people realize.

    The "Five Points of Calvanism", including the first, i.e., "Total Depravity" came from John's followers, not from him. And misunderstanding the "Total" point has led to some 5 hundred years of harsh and unfair attacks against him. But John's followers who framed the Five Points didn't mean everyone is totally depraved in the human morality sense. They only meant the unsaved are so totally SPIRITUALLY corrupted they cannot, of themselves, even want to seek God and that's true. Thus, teaching this, they wanted everyone to credit the Holy Spirit for giving people the "want to" as well as drawing them to seek salvation by God. And, I think most believers can see that, from start to finish, salvation is only by God. I totally agree on that point with the Calvanists.

    There is no special denomination, no exotic theology, no "holy" traditions, no "holy water", no unknown languages to speak, no hoops to jump through, no rings to kiss, no amount of money to be contributed, etc. and no amount of good deeds can convey salvation; it's entirely spiritual between God and each individual.
    Absolutely!
    SAF Patron (Life) | GOA (Life) | NRA Benefactor (Life) | MSRPA (Life)

  14. #94
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    Keep on quotin. See how easy it is to find the exact verse to back up any argument you want to?
    Quote, or at least cite references, I must. Thing is, the label says this is a "deep theology" forum; by definition theology is a study of God's words; that requires scripture. Theology is not a sharing of our deeply held human heart and soul impressions. Nice people who ignore scripture and direct their own paths to God are secular cultists, not Christians.

  15. #95
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    ………..Nice people who ignore scripture and direct their own paths to God are secular cultists, not Christians.
    Religions are cults by another name. If a cult has a temple, then it is a religion.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  16. #96
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Religions are cults by another name. If a cult has a temple, then it is a religion.

    Tim
    ???? Say what?

  17. #97
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    ???? Say what?
    Religion

    NOUN
    the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

    If a cult worships a God or Gods, then it is a religion.

    It does not matter that you think their Gods are false. They probably think your Gods are false.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  18. #98
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Religion

    NOUN
    the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

    If a cult worships a God or Gods, then it is a religion.

    It does not matter that you think their Gods are false. They probably think your Gods are false.

    Tim
    Think? What does "thinking" accomplish if it's wrong thinking? There are people who "think" NASA faked the lunar landings; some think the earth is flat; some "think" medicines to cure cancer are available but suppressed; some "think" socialism can actually create a utopia for us little people and live up to its promises if we'd just let them have absolute rule us; etc. None of that is true so it doesn't matter what ignorants "think" ... or think they think. Believe whatever you will but you know it won't change the truth. My God is real, period. And he doesn't need me, you or anyone else to "think" he is real to make it true.

    Think about it; no other thinking you'll ever do will be as critical for your future!

  19. #99
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Derby, UK.
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Think? What does "thinking" accomplish if it's wrong thinking? There are people who "think" NASA faked the lunar landings; some think the earth is flat; some "think" medicines to cure cancer are available but suppressed; some "think" socialism can actually create a utopia for us little people and live up to its promises if we'd just let them have absolute rule us; etc. None of that is true so it doesn't matter what ignorants "think" ... or think they think. Believe whatever you will but you know it won't change the truth. My God is real, period. And he doesn't need me, you or anyone else to "think" he is real to make it true.

    Think about it; no other thinking you'll ever do will be as critical for your future!
    And there we have it. Faith is the absence of thinking. If God made us in His image then he must have left the brain out!

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Think? ……..My God is real, period. And he doesn't need me, you or anyone else to "think" he is real to make it true.…….
    Better to "think" than to not "think." God is real but God is not your God. God is everyone's God. Your religion does not own God. You "think" that God prefers your religion. In your mind you might "know" that God prefers your religion and God might but I wonder how happy God is with your not "thinking." Something to "think" about if you can bring yourself to "think."

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check