Do you seat gas checks below the case neck? Is this safe?

[swheeler]

I would think it could wedge sideways and have a bullet run over it, couldn't be good for anything.

[Four-Sixty]

This is from the 300 Savage page of Lyman's 4th edition of the "Cast Bullet Handbook"

No accompanying warnings about loose, or poor fitting gas checks.

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[Beagle333]

I put a pinhead dot of epoxy in my rifle checks before I crimp them on, so that worry is not even a distant thought for me. I can seat them as deep as I want.

[BamaNapper]

This is the kind of thread I like to read. Discussion of a concern I never even thought of. I don't shoot bullet wt/caliber where it's a thing.

I do like the idea of PC over the GC. It never occurred to me. A fix for a problem that almost certainly wasn't a problem requiring a fix. But it would make it easier to snap on the GC before adding the extra couple thou of PC. Simple enough to run em thru the sizer again.

As for the thoughts about lube melting and messing up the powder, my brain touched on that a while back and still toys with it. If such a small amount of wax melted, would it even leave the groove? I does make an argument for storing rounds with the pointy end up, and not to store them in the trunk of a black Buick in south Texas. But maybe shooting in south Texas on that really hot day... Lube negates a bit of your powder charge, but the extra heat makes the rest of the powder more reactive. All the physics and chemistry that come together in a millisecond or so is mind-blowing.

If you read this expecting a revelation or informed opinion, I do apologize for the disappointment.

[tucumcari_kid]

I don't use checks so much now that I paint bullets. I haven't loaded rifle in a while but I have the same issue at times with 30 luger and 400 corbon. I guess it doesn't really bother me. There is probably a lot happening with gas checks we aren't aware of short of epoxying or some robust swaging.

[murf205]

Beagle333, have you ever tried super glue? The nozzle of the small tubes of super glue would be just right for applying a dot of glue. Only problem I see would be the "super" fast drying time. Maybe some archery fletching cement?? It takes longer to dry but it still has the tiny nozzle.

[marshall623]

My 7-08 Striker with the Lyman 160 Silhouette boolit has to be seated with the check below the neck to chamber . No issues and I've been shooting that load for about 5 years now in IHMSA . I use Hornady checks .

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[PAndy]

I do this with heavy bullets in 30-30. Longest is the rcbs 180 fp bullet, and I think my saeco 315 also loads this way. Had no trouble, probably 1000 rounds.

[Beaverhunter2]

I seat below the case neck if necessary- and it often is. I figure if I can't pull the sized-on check off the boolit with my fingers it's not going to fall off in normal handling. And as long as it's in the right spot when the primer pops it's going to be there when the boolit leaves the barrel. The pressure in the case is essentially the same everywhere so that's not going to push it off. I agree that the lube/powder contact could be an issue but I PC everything except Lee soupcans in .30-30 and some boolits in 45 ACP and 450 Marlin (straight walled cases)so I avoid this problem. I also wipe the lube off my boolit bases before loading.

[Wisest.fool]

I also seat my gc and then powdercoat. Never had any issues on 30 caliber from 115 to 200gn in 7.62x39 300bo 300win mag or 308. And the 200gn in 308 i have to seat wellllllll below the neck to get them to chamber. Also i make my own checks with dimaproks check maker that don't have the nice crimp on that hornady has and they are still fine. So i vote it doesnt matter if you powdercoat after seating. And if you powder coat and then seat and size it can be hard to get them on and keep them on. I do not recommend that.

Now 224 bullets are a different matter. Those im about to give up on. But thats a different topic.

[plainsman456]

Have not had any problems but i can see the lube melting thing happening.

When i lubed the grooves i didn't load many at a time.

Now i powdercoat and don't worry.
It has made a difference.

[Tar Heel]

Heat. I have often heard folks say that the heat of powder combustion will melt the base of lead bullets and/or the bullet lubricant on the bullet. Nonsense. How many of you reading this have ever passed your finger through a candle flame? Everyone right? Did you know that candle flame is, on average, 1830^o Fahrenheit? Rifle chamber temperatures generally run about 2700^o Fahrenheit. It takes you about 10 times longer to run your finger through a flame that the heat of burning gasses act on a bullet base. Did your finger get burned? No. I doubt that chamber temperatures have enough time to act adversely on bullets of any kind. Pressure however does! Expose your finger to a jet of just 3000psi gas and you will lose it regardless of the time of exposure. Chamber pressures are 10x that or more! Therein lies the devil.

Barrels and actions heat up due to frictional forces as well as repeated exposure to chamber gas temperatures. Put your cartridge in a hot chamber and allow it to temperature soak, and your bullet lube will certainly melt and flow.

Pressure acting on the base of the bullet acts on the entire exposed portion of the bullet equally. Pressure surrounds the exposed shank and gas check. The entire exposed mass is being acting on equally and the entire mass is being directed towards the area of lower pressure - the barrel ahead of it. Once the bullet is completely engaged, only the base is exposed to higher pressure. While you are sitting here reading this, you have 14.7psi (one atmosphere) acting on every part of your body equally. Your feet, your eyes, your arms, your noodle, all your parts. The pressure isn't pulling your pants off is it?

A gas check exposed to ignition and initial burn pressure is not going to be torn away since that pressure is acting on the entire exposed shank equally while driving the entire exposed shank forward.

An unsupported gas check may fall off the base of the bullet due to shock of handling, shock of chambering, or its being a bad fitting gas check. Pressure won't dislodge it.

I have never seen evidence where one of my gas checks has become undone. If it has, I have not seen any indications of this. Perhaps they have. I doubt it but can't state with 100% conviction that that is the case. Regardless, I have not had any problems with bullets seated lower and gas checks residing below case necks.

[racepres]

Heat. I have often heard folks say that the heat of powder combustion will melt the base of lead bullets and/or the bullet lubricant on the bullet. Nonsense. How many of you reading this have ever passed your finger through a candle flame? Everyone right? Did you know that candle flame is, on average, 1830^o Fahrenheit? Rifle chamber temperatures generally run about 2700^o Fahrenheit. It takes you about 10 times longer to run your finger through a flame that the heat of burning gasses act on a bullet base. Did your finger get burned? No. I doubt that chamber temperatures have enough time to act adversely on bullets of any kind. Pressure however does! Expose your finger to a jet of just 3000psi gas and you will lose it regardless of the time of exposure. Chamber pressures are 10x that or more! Therein lies the devil.

Barrels and actions heat up due to frictional forces as well as repeated exposure to chamber gas temperatures. Put your cartridge in a hot chamber and allow it to temperature soak, and your bullet lube will certainly melt and flow.

Pressure acting on the base of the bullet acts on the entire exposed portion of the bullet equally. Pressure surrounds the exposed shank and gas check. The entire exposed mass is being acting on equally and the entire mass is being directed towards the area of lower pressure - the barrel ahead of it. Once the bullet is completely engaged, only the base is exposed to higher pressure. While you are sitting here reading this, you have 14.7psi (one atmosphere) acting on every part of your body equally. Your feet, your eyes, your arms, your noodle, all your parts. The pressure isn't pulling your pants off is it?

A gas check exposed to ignition and initial burn pressure is not going to be torn away since that pressure is acting on the entire exposed shank equally while driving the entire exposed shank forward.

An unsupported gas check may fall off the base of the bullet due to shock of handling, shock of chambering, or its being a bad fitting gas check. Pressure won't dislodge it.

I have never seen evidence where one of my gas checks has become undone. If it has, I have not seen any indications of this. Perhaps they have. I doubt it but can't state with 100% conviction that that is the case. Regardless, I have not had any problems with bullets seated lower and gas checks residing below case necks.

I Like the way you Think... But... Common sense is UnCommon...

[Beaverhunter2]

FWIW I have a 476 325gr mold that crimping doesn't lock the gas checks to the boolit base regularly. Straight walled case so the gas checks can't come off until fired but when it loses one in flight accuracy is affected. Tried putting superglue on right before install and crimp. Didn't help....

[Larry Gibson]

Not really much "danger" unless the GC is loose fitting and may come off in the case during rough handling, as mentioned, or from recoil if in the magazine while other(s) are fired.

The real problems which may occur are riveting of the unsupported lower part of the bullet inside the case and/or severe gas cutting of that portion. There is an explanation in the NRA Cast Bullet supplement with a picture of recovered bullets. Whether this happens to any harmful degree [leading and inaccuracy] is dependent on numerous factors such as alloy, lube, depth into case, type of powder used, burn rate, pressure, etc.

[Photog]

So few years ago I was chronographing some 300BO. Using Lee C309-180 round nose boolits, gas checked with Hornady crimp ons attached during the sizing to 309. they are on pretty good. They gas check also sticks pretty far into the case with that load. Put a gas check right through the face of my chrono. Boolit ran true, but the check made its own way. They fixed it, but it costs money every time that happens, as I have put a 9mm through it once too. stuff happens

[blue32]

I'm continually below the neck with Hornady checks on my 260s. Fortunately it hasn't been a problem.