Surplus Powder Prices

[alamogunr]

With surplus powders becoming less available to some extent, I'm beginning to question whether it is feasible to pay more than $10/lb for surplus when a canister powder may be available for $12 to $14 per lb in 8 lb jugs. I don't have a lot of experience with surplus but the little I do have has been good. As an example, Pat's Reloading has WC-846 for $100/8lbs. This is very close to BL-C(2) at $117.50/8lbs from Powder Valley. It would probably take me a couple of years to shoot up 8 lbs of either.

On the other hand, pistol powders might be used more quickly. I have a good supply of WC-820 but usually shoot mid level loads in .44 mag and .45 Colt, so another powder might be better for these. Something that would also work in .357/.38 spec. would simplify things.

Any comments or recommendations?

John
"alamogunr"

[bradh]

I agree the prices for surplus powder today don't justify buying any when you
consider having to work up loads and canister powder is just 10-15 percent
more in cost.

[felix]

The real question to ask is just what is that powder. BLC2, for example, is surplus, was surplus, could be surplus. The newer powders have different additives to control burning speed, smoke, etc. The dead give away would be the physical granule size, weight of the two powders being compared, and especially using a chrono. And besides that, moisture content of the same powder, same lot, changes during storage. The wetter it is, the slower it is. ... felix

[alamogunr]

The real question to ask is just what is that powder. BLC2, for example, is surplus, was surplus, could be surplus. The newer powders have different additives to control burning speed, smoke, etc. The dead give away would be the physical granule size, weight of the two powders being compared, and especially using a chrono. And besides that, moisture content of the same powder, same lot, changes during storage. The wetter it is, the slower it is. ... felix

I was under the impression that BL-C(2) (this is how it is listed on the Hodgdon site) was a canister powder and that if I bought it, I would be getting a consistent product. The site does indicate that it was originally a military powder. If I bought WC-846, I would have to work up loads from a different starting point than might be possible with BL-C(2). I guess my main question was, is the slight savings worth it?
John

[felix]

Worth it to a shooter? NO. Worth it to an occasional shooter who considers his time at the range a luxery? YES. This means, buy the Hodgdon lot if you are an occasional shooter. ... felix

[Kraschenbirn]

Walked through our twice-a-year local gun show Saturday morning and only one guy had any surplus powders, at all. His WC844 was $120/8# and WC860 @ $95/8#; both of which I considered a bit over-priced considering that 8-pounders of new H335 and IMR4895 were being offered for $140 and $146, respectively, about 10 tables further down the aisle...just about the same as ordering from Midway with a $20 Hazmat charge added.

Bill

[alamogunr]

Less than a year ago I got (4) 8 pounders of WC846 for about $42 per jug. I wouldn't have paid more than that since it was just plinking powder for me. I don't shoot any BIG magnums so really can't use extremely slow powders for serious use. I'm going to try some in my .25-06 but since I don't have a chronograph yet, the results will be approximate at best.

If I can work up a decent order, I will order from Powder Valley. They have always treated me right and only charge one hazmat for a powder and primer order.
John

[Jim]

I have a pound cannister of 3031 that my brother bought close to 10 years ago. The price sticker reads $21.95 . Now, most cannister powders in my area are running about $27. $100 for 8 pounds equates to $12.50 a pound. I' m happy to pay that compared to cannister prices.

[jonk]

Jim,

If you are paying $27 a pound you are getting fleeced. At gunshows here it runs about $19-$21. I suspect you coudl order 2 or 3 cans AND pay hazmat and shipping and come out ahead of $27 per pound.

[felix]

WC846 is too fast for 25-06, except maybe for the 60g or thereabout condoms. ... felix

[sundog]

Bill is right and so is Felix. If you shoot a lot and can find a GOOD application for something you shoot a lot of, buy all you can afford ONLY if the price is right. If you do not shoot a lot of the same thing, stick with canister. Look at it like this -- savings of $17 over 2 years is less than a dollar a month. It's not worth it when I can go back and get another batch of cannister of the same flavor, even with a different lot #, and not have to redevelop the load.

If you buy surplus and cannot find a use for it, you've tied up a resource ($) that could have been used for something else (canister).

Bill, those prices you mentioned I consider to be way out of line. In that particular case I would rather have canister in the exact flavor I needed.

[alamogunr]

WC846 is too fast for 25-06, except maybe for the 60g or thereabout condoms. ... felix

I goofed on my post about use in .25-06. I meant to say that I was going to use WC860, of which I have several jugs. I think that WC846 might work for .30-30 though.
John

[sundog]

John, try snooping around on castpics at member load data. There's even an 860 load from Buckshot on there for 30-30. I've used 844 in 30-30 and 32 Win Spl, and it does right swell. 846 is not that far off, so I'm bettin' you can maybe make it work. 860 with cast in the 25-06 might get the boolit out the bbl, but I bet you'll have A LOT of trash in the bore. I know that 860 work pretty good in 7 mag with condums.

[Kraschenbirn]

Bill, those prices you mentioned I consider to be way out of line. In that particular case I would rather have canister in the exact flavor I needed.

Yeah, I thought so, too. WC844 would've probably worked okay for my 30-30s and, maybe, my .308 and .303 Brit...and I would've given it a try had the price been more reasonable...but why pay a premium to reinvent the wheel when 4895 and 5744 cover 90% of my CF rifle needs, both cast and jacketed?

Bill

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I retired in October of 2006, so weather is the deciding factor on whether I go to the range or not. Wheelweights and surplus powder allow me to go and tinker all I want.

Rich

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess it depends on how much you shoot and how much your willing to buy at one time. For example i shoot alot of 820. I go through two to three kegs a year. At least i did till the back thing slowed me down. If i bought 6 kegs at 90 bucks a keg it still was enough of a savings to make it worth while. If your only going through a keg every couple years your probably best off using comercial powder. Biggest problem with surplus is a guy works up loads for a bunch of guns and then its gone and you have to start over with another powder. 820 has an advantage there to as its just aa9. Sure the burn rate varys a little but in my experience so does aa9. I use 820 because ive found nothing that worked better in mag pistol rounds not because i saved a bunch of money but the fact i do save money is definately a plus. When i look at powders like wc844 at a 100 bucks a keg i will agree that it isnt worth it to me as i dont use much and by the time i need more it will probably be gone. I can buy 335 for not much more and i dont have to work up new loads because it will allways be there.

[Shuz]

Rich--I retired in 1992 and surplus powder and lead boolits allow me to shoot way more that I would otherwise!--Shuz

[Shuz]

I guess it depends on how much you shoot and how much your willing to buy at one time. For example i shoot alot of 820. I go through two to three kegs a year. At least i did till the back thing slowed me down. If i bought 6 kegs at 90 bucks a keg it still was enough of a savings to make it worth while. If your only going through a keg every couple years your probably best off using comercial powder. Biggest problem with surplus is a guy works up loads for a bunch of guns and then its gone and you have to start over with another powder. 820 has an advantage there to as its just aa9. Sure the burn rate varys a little but in my experience so does aa9. I use 820 because ive found nothing that worked better in mag pistol rounds not because i saved a bunch of money but the fact i do save money is definately a plus. When i look at powders like wc844 at a 100 bucks a keg i will agree that it isnt worth it to me as i dont use much and by the time i need more it will probably be gone. I can buy 335 for not much more and i dont have to work up new loads because it will allways be there.

LLoyd--what kind of primers do you use with WC820?

[Shiloh]

Walked through our twice-a-year local gun show Saturday morning and only one guy had any surplus powders, at all. His WC844 was $120/8# and WC860 @ $95/8#; both of which I considered a bit over-priced considering that 8-pounders of new H335 and IMR4895 were being offered for $140 and $146, respectively, about 10 tables further down the aisle...just about the same as ordering from Midway with a $20 Hazmat charge added.

Bill

It's been a while since I ordered powder, WC 846. Glad I did when I did. Now it's around $100-$110 plus shipping and HAZMAT or $120 at a gun show. I haven't seen it at the last couple of local gun shows, but heard it was available at the bigger gun show. I still have about 5# left of the original two 8 # kegs purchased for $144 out the door. It is a shame that surplus is almost gone. What is left is getting close to canister grade prices.

Shiloh

[wiljen]

Dan at Hi-tech has held the line pretty well on prices - I just bought 5 jugs of 7383 for $36 a jug.
Not at all shabby in today's market.