Brennek'ized Full Bore Slugs For Testing

[longbow]

Okay then, far from giving up, I have more slugs to test but since results were mediocre with Brenneke'ized Lee slugs I thought I'd try full bore slugs this time.

Unfortunately I ran out of hard felt so used one hard felt disk on each and one punched from fairly firm felt insoles I had. These are punched with a 3/4" gasket punch along with a thin polyethylene disk (a little too thin but all I've got). The assembled slugs were stood up in a melted bath of my home made lube so the felt would soak it up. The idea being both to lube and firm up the felt.

Pic attached.



The TC slug has turned in not bad accuracy as an HB slug so I filled the cavity with hot melt glue then chucked in my lathe and drilled through for a number 6 wood screw. Felt and polyethylene were center punched in a jig then installed with the whole works in a piece of 12 ga. barrel so they are lined up. Stood in the melted lube then pushed through the piece of 12 ga. barrel while still hot to "size" and form the felt.

The Nessler Balles are made from a drawing of an 1800's Nessler ball as close as I could make the mould. Coincidentally (or maybe not) they came out the same weight as a bore size round ball! This "coincidental" weight makes me wonder if Nessler Balles were swaged from round balls. That would actually make sense but finding much history of Nessler Balles... well... Maybe if I searched in French/Belgian?

Some Nesslers shot very well as reported in the 1800's but then I'd get wild fliers too so overall not a success but I figured they may be on the edge of stability. Proportions are very similar to a Lee 7/8 oz. slug except the Nessler is bore diameter. With an attached tail wad maybe things will improve. We'll see. These got the same treatment as the TC slugs with filling, drilling and screwing.

Got 10 of each made up so will load and shoot shortly.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB very cool and hope they shoot well.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

Both these slugs shot not badly from smoothbore as is, though as I said, some Nesslers went a bit wild! The TC slugs seem quite consistent and "okay", though not excellent, in the accuracy department through smoothbore. I am ordering a rifled choke tube as well so will try both in that too. Blood Trail tested both these and for him in rifled gun they both shot okay but nothing to write home about.

I'll see how they do with attached wad in smoothbore then both as cast through rifled choke tube and with attached wad through rifled choke tube. If I don't get something at least acceptable out of these then I will likely order a Russian Gualandi mould to try. They seem to well for many through smoothbore with the tail wads and then they should do well from rifled gun or rifled choke tube with no tail wad.

Like I said, the Nessler Balles are very similar in proportions to the Lee 7/8 oz. slug and they also want to stand on their noses as cast. I plan on altering the mould a bit to make them a little more nose heavy and try that as well.

Also, they are a perfect fit in the Slugster bore. They are small in my Single shot with 0.733" bore which is what they were shot in before (as cast... no added wad).

We'll see!

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I like the full bore idea. One less issue to go bad.
Mike in Peru

[longbow]

Mike:

Good to see you are still alive and kickin'!

Yes, still playing with slugs. I have always like full bore slugs for that very reason... one less thing to deal with but having said that a guy has to build a wad column. It is awfully handy just to drop a ball or slug into a shotcup. That's my lazy side talking!

Full bore Brenneke's have always been my favourite and I wish I could get some more to try tosee if they still impress me. I suspect they would. AQ's are next in line. Both are pricey to shoot many of though so I tinker at home hoping to equal the factory make loads. Still working on that!

I am liking the Nessler Balle with attached wad. It is very nose heavy and can be made even more so with core pin adjustments. All in all it is similar to the AQ slugs. If it shows any sign of being a "better" mousetrap I will focus on improvements there.

As you know, it is hard to beat the simple 'ol round ball out to 50 yards or a bit more. My goal is still longer range accuracy, hopefully out to 100 yards but my expectations are not as high as they once were!

Still talking smoothbore here at present but I do have a rifled choke tube on order. If that works with round balls providing decent accuracy beyond 50 yards I believe I will call it a day and stick with that.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Kent, don't forget those .678 round balls of yours in that choke tube....easy to load and with the right combo a likely candidate for excellence beyond 50 yds.

[longbow]

I won't Hal! I've got a variety of round balls and slugs to try out in the choke tube. I still think they are rifled too fast (and too shallow) but having said that, I was re-reading old posts and recalled adam604 posted some pretty good results using 0.735" RB in a rifled choke tube several years ago so I re-read those posts. Seems to be similar results to what Petander is getting with his rifled choke tubes... pretty decent!

That and after watching those Taofledermaus videos of the .69 cal. Minie shot from both smoothbore and rifled choke tube has me thinking I missed the bus some time ago! That .69 Minie from rifled choke tube was downright impressive!

I also have other RB candidates: 0.690" that I have had poor success with because they were too big for any wads I had but I now have wads they fit well, 0.715" RB's that might work Teflon or Mylar wrapped and 0.735" which should stand a good chance of engraving well. I also have some bore size slugs to try and of course the Lee slugs ~ as cast and Brenneke'ized.

Out of all that surely something has to work? Right? If not then it is time for a fully rifled barrel!

I can tell there is more recoil induced brain damage about to take place!

Longbow

[303Guy]

All this talk on smooth bore slugs and balls! I've mentioned my 410 once or twice as well as my 12 gauge (which was intended as a suppressed gun). I've considered cutting off the choke on the 410 and going full bore, with either round ball or wadded slugs. Have any of you tried wadded round ball?

A friend once made 12 gauge slugs using a socket wrench as a mold. It cast undersize so he squashed them up to size in a vice (he didn't have the right size socket). They worked. If I remember correctly, the socket was the star or spline type - I think it was the star type. The star has sharp edges which would give way in the choke better. He attached a thick felt wad to them.

[303Guy]

Had a watch at the minie slug video. Maybe the way to go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUaBDBAhw8

[longbow]

Yes indeed! That is impressive! They got similar results with the big 'ol 730 gr. Minie as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bKg5_iX9A&t=86s

Both these .69 Minies seem to have large and deep hollow bases... certainly more so than the .58 Minie moulds I used to have. Both seem to work very well so I am going to copy Taofledermaus to see how they work for me. I still like the idea of a smoothbore due to versatility but I've been stumped trying to get good 100 yard accuracy. Out to 50 yards and a bit further the plain old round ball works just fine but it starts a "curve ball" trajectory somewhere between 50 and 100 yards making 100 yard groups somewhat unpredictable. In my experience anyway.

I've tried all sorts of slugs and have been leaning towards attached wad slugs but... (there's always a "but") it is difficult to get really consistent wads. I am thinking that Brenneke does a final wad shearing/sizing after it is attached to the slug. From what I have seen their Brenneke classic hard felt/fiber attached wads are very consistent. I am finding it difficult to keep wads that consistent even assembling it all in a jig. Of course one can accomplish almost anything if enough time and money is spent but for me these have to be reasonably quick to make with commonly available components or there is little point.

So back to Minies... they are essentially a cast boolit and are very consistent. They don't require any attached wad so no issues there. As long as they are guided down the barrel and are nose heavy they should fly well and so they seem to ~ better than most Foster slugs it seems. It makes one wonder factories use the seemingly inferior Foster design.

Certainly the Taofledermaus videos aren't proof positive and results are also based on very few shots taken but they are indicative of the potential. I am thinking the rifled choke tube and a Minie is looking good! This is my next step anyway.

I really don't need or want a .73 cal. rifle which is what a fully rifled gun is although they do apparently handle Tri-Ball loads reasonably well so still more versatile than a "rifle". A screw in choke tube is easy and easy to carry both rifled and smooth choke tubes so for me a preferable choice to fully rifled gun... and these Minie's seem to do well from smooth bore too. All good stuff!

CBE in Australia makes a similar mould to the Moose mould but it is a bit lighter:

Okay then... I stand corrected! CBE used to make a similar mould to the Moose mould but without the shoulder. It cast a 0.685" pointy Minie style slug for use in shotcup. It does not currently show up on their website.

Well then, Moose Molds it is I guess if I want to buy one!

Longbow

[dsh1106]

Well then, Moose Molds it is I guess if I want to buy one!

Longbow

https://moosemoulds.wixsite.com/mm2013/wadcutter-hb

[longbow]

First I will modify my full bore slug mould to make a similar type slug with "pointy" nose and long "pointy" HB pin to try it out. I've been wondering about nose shape lately and am coming to the conclusion that hemispherical (maybe RNFP) and long TC with moderate meplat seem to make more sense for nose heavy/drag stabilized slugs. Certainly the Moose Molds Minie and the old style Lyman 68569 are relatively pointy compared to most slugs. Both seem to fly well stabilized from smoothbore too. That Moose Molds Minie is about 1/2 nose length/1/2 bearing surface.

I am thinking the Moose Molds style Minie would be choke friendly too... not that I would want to shoot a hard cast slug of any kind through a full choke, I just prefer a design that will compress should it ever mistakenly be chambered and shot in a full choke gun. I think that is also a benefit of the wad slugs in that the wad petals should squish if things get too tight.

If this doesn't work as well as Taofledermaus results a guy could still add an attached wad.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Longbow,

I've found that the nose profile is almost as important as a good base wad when shooting slugs from smoothbores. I tested some sleeve-slugs with a large (maybe 90%) meplat and while they shot great at about forty yards, they would start to tumble once the distance increased. My best guess is that the air was being compressed at the front of the slug with nowhere to go except outwards. This would put a lot of pressure one the nose, and at the same time create a void behind the slug so any drag-stabilizing would be pretty much non-existent.

At one point I contemplated designing a turned brass slug with a lightweight plastic nose cone to improve the airflow over the slug (like the artillery shells used on battleships in the previous century) A more pointed profile would also improve the horrible ballistic which robs a slug of nearly 2/3 of its energy at a hundred yards. But - as so many other of my ideas - it ended as yet another wreck on the reef of Good Intentions...

[longbow]

Cap'n Morgan:

I believe you are right on the nose profile.

I've been thinking lately that TC with relatively small meplats and hemispherical noses should allow smoother air flow over the slug.

I have to say that I was quite surprised when I watched that Taofledermaus video of the .69 cal. 730 gr. slug flying straight and true from a smoothbore. It does appear to have weight forward design to it but not that much different than say a 575213 Lyman Minie. It seems that most Minie designs that people have tried from smoothbores do not stabilize anyway. If they did then why bother with rifling?

Looking at the Moose Molds .69 cal. boolit I can believe it would be a good "Foster" slug. It does appear to be a very much weight forward design. In fact it looks like a scaled up Lyman .58 Minie of very similar design (375 gr. I think). In any case, both of these .69 Minies have long and fairly streamlined noses and both flew well from smoothbore. I am thinking you are right and that streamlined nose is a significant part of the equation.

I am in the process of modifying one of my moulds to produce a similar design slug for use in shotcup. We'll see how that goes!

Yes, I believe I have left my fair share of wreckage on that reef too! It time for some real success I think!

Longbow

[longbow]

A bit of an update here as well...

I finally got back to slugs and Brenneke'izing. This time around it was mostly Lee slugs with modified core pins to put a post and screw hole in the middle of the drive key.

That thread is here:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Brenneke-ized!

Also reported is my dismal failure with my Moose Minie clone. I modified one of my moulds to cast a smooth sided Moose Minie clone. I had bored a little too close to finish diameter and it wound up casting at 0.692" after lapping but it fit nicely into Claybuster 1 oz. Winchester wad clones.

I filled the cavities with hot melt glue, loaded up then everything ground to a halt! I finally got out to test them yesterday. Missed a 2' x 3' target at 50 yards! So I went to 25 yards and put 9 more into a nice tight 13" group!

They cut nice clean holes and flew nose on but they sure didn't group well. After watching the Taofledermaus video of their Moose Minie testing I had high hopes. Those hopes were dashed yesterday! I might give them one more try and will maybe try an attached wad to see if that works.

No joy here with Moose Minies... or to be fair to Moose Molds, my Moose Minie clones in 12 ga. smoothbore.

Longbow

[longbow]

Look at that! I getting confused!

This is the full bore Brenneke'ized slug thread! I have some more of those to test as well.

I'll try to get to them shortly then update here.

Longbow