OK, this is my attempt at a thread hi-jack
So, lets presume I wanted to buy a flint (RB) rifle .50cal (pref .54 or .58)
what does everyone recommend?
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OK, this is my attempt at a thread hi-jack
So, lets presume I wanted to buy a flint (RB) rifle .50cal (pref .54 or .58)
what does everyone recommend?
1. get one made for you by an onshore builder.
2. build a kibler kit.
3. buy a lyman GPR - but remember, this will have a patent breech.
Lyman is not a U.S. made rifle., T/C is a U.S. made rifle.Originally Posted by rfd
If you wanted a rifle made here in the states, All T/C's were made in the U.S. You can get the barrel relined in a RB twist by Bobby Hoyt.
i never said it was. t/c trad muzzleloaders have long been out of production - that means going used, if used is an option to AllanD.
there are more than a few Good onshore custom builders, and that's the route to take for a classic flat breeched traditional muzzleloader.
ditto's for a kibler kit, or any other worthy trad ml kit.
there's more to this than meets the eye and you really need to know about trad ml's.
rfd, sorry if i am confused. your first comment was buy an onshore rifle, i took that as what you meant overall. If the OP wants a true u.s. made custom, then I am misspoken. Even though T/C no longer makes cap and flints, one can still pick up one and rebore or reline if they wanted to avoid the overseas junk.
my prioritized gun list for AllanD is based on new guns, not used. used guns can be great bargains ... or nightmares. one needs to really know what one is buying, and that's something not everyone can properly assess without knowledgeable intervention. more than a few newbies to trad ml's don't really understand these guns and purchase with feelings instead of facts.
however, not all offshore trad ml's are to be considered "junk" (i'm refraining from using, as dictated by CB forum rules, the vernacular common-place "c" word). these guns, by and large, have patent breeches that can be considered by some to be somewhat of a hindrance for fouling control and cleaning because a bore sized jag won't fit into any patent breech ante-chamber. of these guns, the lyman family that's made by investarms (italy) allows relatively easy removal of breech plugs. i'll not get into the need for plug removal, that's typically another whole can of worms. traditions guns (spain) clearly state in their literature not to remove breech plugs and that such removal would "...permanently damage your barrel and void your warranty". pedersoli uses several different types of patent breeches, but most are removable. other types of offshore patent breech plug design make dealing with bolsters and touch hole liners a real chore to service, as well. clearly, i'm not a fan of patent breeches, but having worked on many different brands and types of such plugs, i prefer the investarms ones (rebranded as lyman, cabelas, DGW, etc).
for a solid, dependable, proper trad muzzleloader, flint or cap, the way to go for a heritage gun is one built onshore by a creditable builder. not cheap. at least four to six times the cost of a typical offshore gun. onshore kits are another option, for two to four times the offshore gun cost. used is always an option as long as one knows exactly what one is purchasing.
Get one with a GOOD lock first off. A Davis or a tuned Siler or and L and R is a good start. If you can stay away from a lock with coil springs and they don't scrape the frizzens smoothly and tend to chatter. A Dixie lock will need work to go good and a lot need their frizzens rehardened. The locks on the old Navy Arms Mortimer rifles are just about perfect as they came.
Then you need a good barrel here is where the Lyman GPR is up to snuff. I replaced the lock of a GPR with an L and R and it is still winning matches. I don't consider any of the CVA or Spanish barrels as really good some may touch adequate but most have funny breeching and rough bores.
I am not being a curmudgeon here just going by what really works. I started cheap like everyone else and in the long run it cost me in frustration, prizes and money. Better to save for a couple years and get it right at the start so you can hear boom every time you pull the trigger and can hunt all day in the rain and bring in game!
Personally, I would rather not recommend a kit that another person should buy.
I don't know what their preferences are.
The stock fit is probably the most important one which is a highly personal choice.
Perhaps it would be better to recommend a builder to be able to tell them what you want.
Or find a "factory" or "custom" made gun that has the characteristics that you're looking for.
I think that factory assembled guns start out as a kit in the factory, the difference being that way more hands are involved in their assembly.
Many kits come from "kit factories" even if the kit is currently made in the USA.
Even many "custom" made guns are basically using kit components that come from the same group of manufacturers and vendors.
This wanting to build a rifle yourself is for people who have expertise, tools and the right equipment, experience and knowledge to assemble a well built gun.
Otherwise, a person is just assembling a gun that may have better components, but not put together with even the final quality of fit and finish of a factory assembled gun.
If a person needs to ask which kit they should buy, then perhaps they need a level 1 kit for novices.
I would like a percussion gun using one of a few specific types of actions, with a breech plug that is easy to remove, has a gun stock with a modern rifle configuration and a certain length of pull, barrel twist rate and overall length.
Which kit is the best for me?
There is no such kit and only a custom maker would be able to make it for me with my input because I'm not capable enough to make it on my own.
The world is filled with choices and compromises unless a person has the money to have someone else fabricate what they want.
Even factory made guns can be improved, a new lock, barrel, stock or trigger can be fitted.
A gun is only a set of parts that should fit well together, be ergonomic and meet the needs of the owner.
No one can read someone else's mind about what floats their boat, how much money that they want to spend or what's their favorite breakfast cereal.
My kid went and built his own Ruger 10/22 totally from scratch without using hardly any Ruger parts at all.
I guess that makes it a kit gun without actually being bought as a kit, but in the end it's still a 10/22.
Last edited by arcticap; 04-29-2019 at 11:11 AM.
Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders - look them up and save your pennies. I did.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
Second on TVA I forgot them they are quality!
Pictures of mine up in the picture thread.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
Well, I want a traditional style muzzleloader but not so traditional it has a hooked brass butt plate
and in that regard the Lyman deerstalkers (with a rubber recoil pad) look good to me.
Most of the custom made American made rifles are simply out of my price range.
Like I said I want a round ball rifle, 54 would be good, 58 would be better.
I really only it for the Pennsylvania winter deer season where a patched round ball flintlock
is required. but I also want to get used to ONE Muzzle loader rifle just in case I should ever
draw an Elk tag.
this is good - yer a hunter first and foremost and just want a sidelock rather than a inline. most of the low end offshore guns will fit yer pocketbook. while they might kinda sorta look "olde timey" all are lacking as true representatives of an 18th or 19th century era muzzleloader. but that won't matter a bit to ya as long as it'll be a sidelock. just remember about the ante-chamber these guns have, and keep 'em cleaned or you could wind up with ...
Good for you that you're interested in a specific model.
You could do a lot worse than a Lyman Deerstalker.
Just for fun, someone in PA is selling a NIB stainless TC Firestorm .50 on Gunbroker.
It has a removable breech plug and was made in the USA, both of which should make RFD really happy!
Detailed Gun Review: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...orm-flintlock/
Last edited by arcticap; 05-01-2019 at 11:00 AM.
i have a friend who has a firestorm. it's fast becoming his favorite tomato stake, it works that good.
There's quite a few youtube videos of people shooting Firestorms.
Some folks are novices and have problems but I've also seen some fast ignitions.
What seems to be the problem with his?
Something that can't be fixed?
The video below shows 3 shots with a Firestorm in less than a minute.
Last edited by arcticap; 05-01-2019 at 03:31 PM.
wel i just got in this dixie deluxe cub 36 caliber flintlock rifle kit and i am in the process of finishing this rifle kit to do some fun challenging squirrel hunting!
most beautious!wel i just got in this dixie deluxe cub 36 caliber flintlock rifle kit and i am in the process of finishing this rifle kit to do some fun challenging squirrel hunting!
Well, that used Fire Storm is about 20miles away and $250 more than I have available this month...
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