So it seems like those rifled chokes really seem to help with accuracy. I may have to try one. I’ve been thinking about them for a while.
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So it seems like those rifled chokes really seem to help with accuracy. I may have to try one. I’ve been thinking about them for a while.
Any amount of spin injected to the slug has to improve accuracy. Even the Paradox rifling, that was not much of a twist rate, made accuracy something that could be counted on within limitations.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
Reading this thread today has got me wanting to get serious about the 20 gauge ball/slug loading try.
Last winter I looked for a rifled barrel for my 20 ga Model 870 Express. All I could find were going for around $200, which is what I gave for the gun. I did look at the rifled choke tubes, but thought the twist was too fast. Maybe not, petander did have decent results with his.
Seems to me like a roll crimping tool is the only specialized tooling needed for trying.
Robert
Depending on your wad column you may or may not need a roll crimp. In the case of my 12 gauge, I used a fold crimp with a round ball encased in a 12S3 wad in conjunction with a rifled choke tube and everything worked out great!
"We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"
unknown
As centershot says, no need for a roll crimp. The advantage of them is they adjust to the load, rather than you adjusting the load to fit a fold crimp. Roll crimps also allow a view inside, so there is no mistaking you have a slug. Fold crimps work fine for slugs, and they are the better choice if you are using a slug inside a wad or sabot.
OK thanks. I will look into the crimping tool and some wads. With the price and unavailability of slugs, I think this is a worthwhile undertaking. Most of my shots are very close. Sometimes I'm higher up in the tree than the deer is from the base!
I finally loaded some test loads. I cut open some old, 1 ounce shot loads. They had a plastic sleeve and a felt wad. I removed the sleeve. The ball was loose in the shell, even with the sleeve present, so I soaked a cloth patch in LLA/JPW lube, put the ball in the patch, and stuffed it into the case. After a couple days of drying I took the loads to the range and shot them at 25 yards. As you can see, the grouping is pretty bad.*** Don't know where I'm going to go with this from here. Maybe a thicker, paper sleeve instead of a cloth patch. Man, if there was some way I could attach some vanes to the back of the ball. I think that would do the trick.
***For some reason I couldn't upload the pic of the pattern. It was about a foot at 25 yards.
Last edited by Charlie Horse; 05-30-2022 at 08:21 AM.
I noticed several different pics showing the ball sticking out past the end of the hull. Did you run these through a tubular magazine? Seems like that might be problematic.
Cargo
I have not tried the cloth patching to bore but have cloth patched 0.662" RB's into shotcups with good success. Accuracy ran 4"+/- a bit at 50 yards and pretty consistent with no real fliers. I got the same accuracy with 0.735" RB over had card wad column. Groups do open up after 50 yards, though are not bad out to maybe 70 yards. By 100 yards groups tend to run 8" to 12" and noticeable fliers.
I have read that cloth patched balls to fit the bore can be accurate but of course the cloth has to stay on the ball from hull through forcing cone and into the bore. I had thought that was unlikely but there are posts here saying it works. Certainly if the cloth patch stays on the ball accuracy should be good but if not I can say that a rattle fit of ball to bore will result in very poor accuracy and it doesn't take much rattle at all.
A slug I have been trying to duplicate at home is the AQ slug which is essentially what you are talking about attaching vanes to the back of the ball. I use hot melt glue cast in a form but consistency has been a problem. I have solved the consistency problem now so time for more testing. I generally use these as wad slugs since glue contact with the bore would be bad. However, I have also made bore diameter versions and paper patched the glue skirt. If my skirt consistencuy is good these slugs are quite accurate. I currently have some Lee slugs with this type of cast on skirt just waiting for me to get time to shoot them.
Longbow
Yes they are sticking out a little. I see what you mean.Originally Posted by Cargo
No problems this far,after ~ 1500 fired from the 870. And I have an extended mag tube.
Last edited by Petander; 07-17-2022 at 11:56 PM.
Good to hear, thank you.Yes they are sticking out a little. I see what you mean.
No problems this far,after ~ 1500 fired from the 870. And I have an extended mag tube.
Cargo
While it isn't "normal" to have the RB or round nose slug poking out the end of the hull, I can't imagine there is a safety issue with it setting off a primer in the tube magazine. The pointy nose of a Brenneke Classic, maybe.
I wouldn't worry about it.
But then that is just my opinion.
Longbow
Remember,these re-filled trap loads are not "normal".
Cutting the crimp part leaves a very short hull for re-crimping. These rounds are only 56 mm (2.2") long when re-crimped. My crimping machine is adjusted to the shortest possible round length here, so I could not crimp more even with a lower column. And if I could, then the petals would get crimped... why to complicate a simple idea for better looks?
This seems to work after 2 1/2 years.
I don't know how you say it in Finnish but "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" It is working for you.
I was only concerned with primers, not with looks.
Cargo
Why did you toss the sleeve? A .562" is already a little small to be used in a 20 gauge wad cup, but it should work fairly well. .575" is better. I would think if those 1 ounce loads had a separate cup, it should be fairly thick, and would work really well. I'd just put some 28 gauge felt wads in the bottom of that cup as spacers, stuff a .562" ball in there, and crimp it. If it chambers, it is safe.
The "sleeve" was a rectangular piece of plastic wrapped around the shot load. Maybe I should find some shot loads with a proper shot cup and put the ball in there.
I don't have a means to crimp the shells. Any idea, without spending a bunch for a proper crimping tool?
I'm shooting these out of a single shot.
Ive always wondered how it would shoot if you reversed the plastic wad and somehow attached it to your lump of lead in effect making a shuttle cock.... never been game to try it and finding round ball sinker of correct diameter hasnt happened yet... in times of shortage and tight money my father used to pinch my older brothers glass marbles and do same thing yo uhave with trap shells,and shoot bailed up pigs with them...glass fragments in meat=not good idea but they worked for close range head shots...strangely enough in later years we found under 5 yards the shot load worked just as good as it was still inside the wad.
refold a star crimp load over the top and push it hard onto flat surface...you can get away with allsorts with a breakopen gun.
if you have a plastic/cardboard over charge wad in front of case,a little cheap nail varnish will hold it in place,hot glue would do same thing,just a little it does have to let go and get out of the way after all.
+1 with Milky Duck's thinking. I use Elmer's white glue when making .44 shot shells.
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