IMR 4227 quandary

[newton]

I was going through my powder stash and was going to add a small amount of 4227 I had left into a newer bottle of it I had opened. There was not much left in the older bottle, so I figured a good shake up and all would be well.

Before I poured it in I decided to take a look because something struck me as odd. Turns out the two powders looked totally different. I’ve never run into this before. I’ve had both bottles since new. Shot rounds out of both.

Is this something that happens, same powder but different lots have such different length grains? Just seems too much of a difference to be right. I cannot say I remember shooting the same load from each canister. I always work up a load when getting a new can.

I think I had worked up a load, then loaded a bunch, and then decided to get another can for another project, and not wanting to start over I just started loading from the new can.

[Texas by God]

Pump the brakes, what's going on there? Both containers say IMR 4227? There was a H4227 also I think.

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[JBinMN]

Your question, if not answered here in the forum, is a great question to ask Hodgdon/IMR tech/customer support.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/contact

or:

http://ns.hodgdon.com/contactus.html

If you have a safety problem or concern - DO NOT EMAIL - CALL US DIRECTLY 7:00am to 5:30pm Central Monday-Thursday : 913-362-9455



Street Address:
Hodgdon Powder Company

6430 Vista Drive

Shawnee, KS 66218

Phone:
913-362-9455

Fax:
913-362-1307

E-mail:
help@hodgdon.com

If ya decide to do contact them, providing/sending the pics would certainly help, IMO.

G'Luck! Regardless of what ya decide to do!

[Ford SD]

there is IMR 4227 made By Dupont very old stuff .... never seen it my self

there is IMR 4227 made in Canada not as old as above..... not made any more .... Use the Old IMR DATA

there is IMR 4227 not made in Canada Use Current Data

and there is H4227 .... use H 4227 Data

is there something new ?


What is on the back of the Label made ??? lot # ?

[243winxb]

Compare photos here, all powers. http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/samp...?powder_id=312

[newton]

Good thing I’m not loosing it. I really thought it was strange.

I’m going to look again, but I don’t think I could find a lot number on the older bottle.

I’m pretty sure I bought the newer bottle less than 2 years ago, I can look back and maybe decern when I bought the first. Like I said, I’ve used both, according to published data, I’ve not experienced any thing wrong that I can remember. There is a slight remembrance of trying a load for it in something, and never could get the load to work right. It would have been from the older bottle.

Here are the bottles.

[243winxb]

IMR 4227 has been made in Canada and Australia. They may look different in color, mostly.

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/upl...10-v028-15.pdf (AR2215)

and the other Safety Data Sheet. https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/upl...ase-canada.pdf

[243winxb]

Here is the H4227 http://ns.hodgdon.com/PDF/MSDS%20Fil...20(AR2205).pdf

(AR2205)


IMR and H are different powders. IMO. Currently Hodgdon data 44 magnum in photo.Attachment 237385

Look under "Rifle Data" Current both IMR & H appear to be the same??

[FullTang]

Had a similar experience recently; I was half-way through a newer 1 lb. bottle of IMR 4227 and liking it for various uses. Then I saw an 8 pounder that looked new for only $100 at a LGS; they told me it was from a police confiscation, but it appeared to be more or less sealed and smelled good. When I got that home, I compared it to the stuff I already had and saw exactly what the OP saw. Then I noticed the 8 pounder of "short cut" was made in Australia, while the 1 pounder of "long cut" 4227 was made in Canada, which explained the difference. In case you're curious, the date codes appear to show that the long-grain Canadian stuff was made in 2016, the Aussie stuff was from 2014, so they must have switched over somewhere in there (assuming I'm reading it right).
Still, I was a little nervous and worried someone had pulled the old switcheroo. So, I measured out equal volumes of each in a Lee dipper, and they were exactly the same weight/density, and both were the weight they were supposed to be on the charts. I've used them interchangeably since then, and I can't tell any difference.
I think you'll be OK, Newton!

[Dieselhorses]

I inherited an old can of IMR 4227 made by DuPont. Works wonders in my 500 mag! It was engineered for military originally I believe. Trying to find identical load/ results with new stuff.


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[sharps4590]

Rank into the same thing recently with Reloader 7.

[Jlw6636]

Thanks for this info. I use 4227 for several loads and was unaware of this as well.

[Sig556r]

Though they maybe the same density as individual grains (one is a cylinder, the other more of a disc type) but the longer grains will occupy more case space than the shorter one for uncompressed loads. Maybe to minute to matter in most loads but may on some.

[FullTang]

Though they maybe the same density as individual grains (one is a cylinder, the other more of a disc type) but the longer grains will occupy more case space than the shorter one for uncompressed loads. Maybe to minute to matter in most loads but may on some.

Well, that's just it---they are the exactly same density, so they clearly worked at making both powders compatible in that way. No need to adjust the load data for the two types, as far as I can tell. They both meter exactly the same in any volumetric powder measure I've tried. Of course, I haven't tried using a 1.5 grain charge in .25 ACP, but I don't think anyone else has, either.

[newton]

Thanks for all the help. Curious, has anyone who ran into this with 4227, or any other powder, talk to the manufacturer and see what they say?

I looked on the back of the bottles this morning. The older bottle has nothing to indicate lot or anything. The other has the lot code.

Going back it looks like I probably bought the first bottle around 2015. Both say they were made in Canada and packaged in the USA. Honestly, other than one having a code on the back, nothing is different.

I think I will shoot Hodgdon an email. Just to see.

[dale2242]

Call Hodgdon.
I called them the other day and their tech answered my questions.
Good people there...dale

[baogongmeo]

I had the same experience with WST... saw no difference when I used it.

[Lloyd Smale]

used to be imr and Hodgdon had different specs for lots of 4227. burning rate was very similar but they were not the same powders. One was black and one was more green. Today hogdon owns imr and both imr and h4227 are the same and they are the same as the old h4227.