Duck/goose load help

[Markopolo]

Morning guys...

In my quest to become more mainstream, I am looking to get better tooled up to shoot steel. Typically I am a spot and stalk jump shooter. But I also get some pass shooting, and occasionally have to reach out around 40 yards. Of course i shoot a 12g. I have AA hulls, lots of fiber stuff of all sizes. I need a good multipurpose Mallard-lesser goose load and like the idea of No 2 shot. So I need a powder wad combo preferably 2 3/4. I need to get tooled up for next year... I load plastic with an old VersaMec. I been reading about speed, weight, other non toxic, and I truely can not afford to spend my fixed income money on special heavy shot and such. I need do it yourself stuff on a budget that works. Most of my bird hunting requires long hikes wearing neoprene chest waders and slogging through marshes hauling decoys, gun, 44 mag and such, so lightweight carrying a multi purpose load is important. I also carry a couple of round balls and a buckshot round or 2 as well for whatever else is in season... so, a wad, powder, shot combo is what I need. Remember, buying hulls from BPI is not an option as their shells are primed, can’t be shipped via air, and that also bites into my budget. I can get some powders, and have all of the aliant “dot” powders, unique, 2400, 4756, universal, and such. I have a limited amount of Longshot as well, but dont have any aliant steel yet. I think I can get some... if required. I would love to get up around 1400 FPS with something. It would also be nice to be able to use some of my older guns if possible with fixed full chokes, but I am feeling like that may be outta the question.

Thanks guys.. let the advise begin.

Marko

[tomme boy]

You are going to need to get Steel powder. There are a few loads with Blue Dot but that is about it for the data that I have. I gave up on loading steel a few years ago. It was just not worth it anymore for me.

But I had way better luck with Federal hulls than with the Remington Hulls. Mainly because of capacity of the Federals. I did have some screaming 1750FPS 1oz loads I used for in your face shots when we were in the fields. That was when the shots were 20 yds or less. I used the Rem hulls for them.

[megasupermagnum]

As someone who loaded steel shot for about 10 years, take my word that it is not worth it. You will never beat factory ammo, and you will never come out ahead. 40 yards is not too tall an order, but passing shots are often longer than that. Steel shot very quickly looses either penetration or pattern past 45 yards, no matter how fast you shoot it. I didn't realize how long some passing shots were until I started carrying a rangefinder. I don't know what ammo costs in Alaska, but surely shipping for reloading components is equally more expensive. If you want to shoot #2, you will want 1 1/4 oz minimum to have the pattern density you will need. It is possible to get 1400 fps from 1 1/4 oz, but only in a 3" or 3 1/2". On top of that, you will need Alliant STEEL powder, nothing else will get the speed you are asking for. Now I do have a custom 1 1/4 oz load I made with 3" Federal plastic basewad that uses Bluedot. I purposefully loaded it heavy, and had Tom Armbrust test it. It goes 1325 fps 4' from the muzzle, and 12,500 psi at 80 degrees. I shot that with #3 shot, and is about the best steel handload I've come up with. For 2 3/4", most everyone agrees on one load that works over a wide range, but it will never be a 50+ yard pass shot load. A federal GM hull, Federal 209A, 32 grains STEEL, SAM 1 2 3/4" wad, 1 1/8 oz #3. That one runs about 1400 fps, and is a great overall load.


Coincidentally, it is nearly identical to the Federal 2 3/4" speed shok 1 1/8 oz #3 load, which is the only thing I would shoot if I absolutely had to go back to steel shot.


Now with the price of Bismuth down in the past 3-4 years, steel shot makes a lot less sense. You can buy the Kent 2 3/4" #4 bismuth load for $32 a box that is a true 50 yard load, provided it patterns in your gun. Bismuth can also be bought for $15 a pound, and loaded with exactly the same components as lead shot. Everything you already have will work, you just need to buy the shot.

If you still want to start loading steel shot, PM me, I can give specifics. Most of what you will need can be bought from Bucks Run Sports. Precision reloading is a good company, but their steels shot wads are pure garbage. Ballistic products TPS wads are OK, although some of their data is suspect. Bucks Run Sports sells Reloading Specialties products, and the SAM 1 is THE steel shot wad if you ask me. Some batches back in the mid 2000's had funky slits, yet still patterned equally well. The last ones I bought were slit normally. Their design lends itself to great patterns, low pressure, and high velocities, something the BPI or PR wads don't have. The LBC series is pretty good too, but are only sold unslit. Get the Reloading Specialties reloading manual, it is full of good data.


Also, be aware that you cannot have lead ammo nearby when hunting migratory waterfowl. It's more than likely you can get away with the 44 magnum if the officer is not a Richard, but you cannot have any lead shotgun ammo with you. It can't even be in your car on the other side of a slough.

[longbow]

Markopolo:

I am afraid I am pretty useless here. I had a very short waterfowl hunting "career"... really just a couple of trips. Not into the waterfowl that much.

Something that may be of help if you haven't seen it is this site:

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com

He has lots of info in his blog and lots of info on steel shot so there should be some goodies there for you if you haven't seen it.

That's about all I've got.

Longbow

[MusicMan]

"Remember, buying hulls from BPI is not an option as their shells are primed, can’t be shipped via air, and that also bites into my budget."
Call them up and have them fill a large USPS flatrate box with once fired hulls. They did it for me about a year ago. There once fired are very good hulls.

[Markopolo]

I have a buddy in Juneau that would and has sent me trap hulls from his gun club.. but nothing in 3 in.. buying already loaded shells is out of the question cuz it’s a total **** shoot. I need the control of being able to pattern for different guns.. and my hunting partners guns.. I like those wads from Bucks the Sam 1 Wad is reputed as being fast.. so where do folks get their bismuth???

[Markopolo]

Any other imput on Bismuth sources??? Or steel loads?

[Blood Trail]

Man, all these naysayers about reloading steel! I exclusively load steel for waterfowl for the last 5-6 years and I do great! BPI starting selling de-milled steel shot on the cheap. I shoot #2’s with the Saturn shaped shot from Black Cloud. My shoots range from over decoys to passing. I’ve been nothing but happy.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/mo.../products/929/

I don’t have any experience loading 2.75” tapered hulls, but I bet I can put together something. I have a source for once fired 3” hulls if you’re interested.












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[Blood Trail]

BTW, I have plenty of published data for steel shot.


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[megasupermagnum]

Of course you can load good steel shot reloads. Is it better than factory? No. Is it economical? No. Cost for steel shot reloads is about $13 a box. Cost for same factory ammo is about $13 a box.

[Markopolo]

Wow... those are some yummy looking mallards... out of all of the birds out there, Mallard breast cooked fairly rare is heaven to me... other birds are just meat.. but mallards are steak.. I did see that thing about the mixed zinc plated and Saturn shot mixed together and offered in bulk.. I might have to give that a try...

[megasupermagnum]

Wow... those are some yummy looking mallards... out of all of the birds out there, Mallard breast cooked fairly rare is heaven to me... other birds are just meat.. but mallards are steak..

You guys don't get wood ducks? Mallards are ok, wood ducks, teal, and ringneck are my favorites.

[skeettx]

Steel powder is the one to get

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...id=15&gauge=12

wads and shot here

http://www.reloadingspecialtiesinc.c...ecialties.html

[Markopolo]

We don’t get wood ducks... we get teal, but the are so small... I rarely shoot them unless there is nothing else... we get a Madrid of sea ducks. Mallards, and lessers are my bread and butter... buffleheads and other divers everywhere, but I don’t shoot those either... dusky geese and a very very few snow geese sometimes get lost and show up here.. but cacklers and mallards are what I target... so maybe number 3’s????

[skeettx]

#3 for ducks, BB or BBB for geese

[megasupermagnum]

We don’t get wood ducks... we get teal, but the are so small... I rarely shoot them unless there is nothing else... we get a Madrid of sea ducks. Mallards, and lessers are my bread and butter... buffleheads and other divers everywhere, but I don’t shoot those either... dusky geese and a very very few snow geese sometimes get lost and show up here.. but cacklers and mallards are what I target... so maybe number 3’s????

If you ever make it down my way, I'd be glad to share some wood duck. The breasts aren't as big as mallard obviously, but they taste so good. Mallard tastes like goose to me. Not bad at all, but very much like a rich beef. Wood duck gets more of the pheasant/rabbit taste, as does teal. While teal are small, cut in half makes perfect kabob chunks. I never turn down divers either. I doubt anyone could tell the difference between redneck and mallard. I could understand not wanting bufflehead, merganser, or coot, although I eat all three, so what does that say?

How big is a cackling goose? #3 is perfect for mallards.


Us Minnesota hunters can't be so picky. We ruined our wetlands 50 years ago, so we take what we can get now.

[W.R.Buchanan]

BT: is that you in the pictures? Nice beard!

Mine is all white!

Randy

[Markopolo]

I am the guy on the left... the lessers are not a lot bigger then the mallards....

Lesser snow..


And the very very occasional dusky...



So mostly we are hunting in salt, either motoring over and then hiking in through the marsh, or hiking in from the trail... either way, about 3 miles.

[Blood Trail]

BT: is that you in the pictures? Nice beard!

Mine is all white!

Randy

Yessir.




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[Hogtamer]

I see hats come with the job BT!