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Thread: .38 S&W is prudent gunsmith’s choice to restore antique rook rifles.

  1. #101
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I just tried it again, using the boilerplate for .38 S&W instead of short Colt. Still haywire. Need to know the exact case capacity in grains of water. I'm thinking their default is less than what you actually have.
    Cognitive Dissident

  2. #102
    Boolit Master

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    I measured water in a just fired Remigton .38 SC case. It came in at 13.9gr of water. There could be a slight variation from the shortened Starline .38 LC that was cut to the same length. Those are what I loaded the 9.5gr of RL7 in. But they should be very close.

  3. #103
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    That helps. QL wanted to make it 11.0 grains.

    Now your RL7 load is only slightly compressed, and QL suggests 5 grains of 2400 and 7 of 4227.

    Still a SWAG, but worth a try. Neither one calculates to more psi than your RL7 load., so you'd have room to grow.
    Cognitive Dissident

  4. #104
    Boolit Master

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    Great - that gives me a starting point. Thanks !

  5. #105
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry I haven’t got back to you’s on this thread but the gun has been sold.
    Things have taken a bit of a turn and side track .
    I’m waiting for a 1:8 twist 30 cal barrel for a martini cadet to show up.
    Thanks for the help.
    I do enjoy reading about these builds thou.

  6. #106
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    That helps. QL wanted to make it 11.0 grains.

    Now your RL7 load is only slightly compressed, and QL suggests 5 grains of 2400 and 7 of 4227.

    Still a SWAG, but worth a try. Neither one calculates to more psi than your RL7 load., so you'd have room to grow.
    uscra112
    I went to the range today and tried about a half dozen loads. The only ones that shot consistently and were the most accurate were the .38 short colts loaded with CCI SP magnum primers, 7.5gr and 8.0gr of 4227 and the Old West 150gr heel bullet.

    7.5gr - 728fps avg, 28.29 ES, 10.81 SD.
    8.0gr - 794fps avg, 33.7 ES, 13.45 ES.

    The other revelation is that my previously tested .38 long colt cases were annealed too soft. This was allowing them to stick at the front of the chamber where some pitting is. Today I tried the same .38 long colt loads, but used once fired .38 special brass, cut down to .38 long colt length. These were not annealed. These extracted just fine

    So now I'd like to build on these two lessons learned by loading the .38 long cases with 4227 and the same primer and bullet. Would you be so kind as to check Quickload for 4227 data for the .38 long colt and 150gr bullet? The case length is .875", water capacity is 16.0gr. I'm thinking now that 800-950fps may be a sweet spot.

    Thanks,
    Steve

  7. #107
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Well, QL wants to tell us that 8 grains of 4227 would yield MV of 996 fps from a 24 inch barrel, much higher than your chronograph detected, so the model is still pretty far off somewhere. Go up in steps to 10 grains in the Long case with water capacity of 16 grains.

    On another front: I ordered a special reamer from Dave Manson to do the pockets for 6mm blanks in our rimfire adaptors. He's going to take a standard .22LR reamer and reduce the body diameter to .2225 +/-0001". This will, I expect, make the process a lot quicker, since the reamer will form the rim recess instead of doing that in a separate operation. Should have it in about three weeks, (just in time for me to be entering rehab for my back surgery - oh, well).
    Cognitive Dissident

  8. #108
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Well, QL wants to tell us that 8 grains of 4227 would yield MV of 996 fps from a 24 inch barrel, much higher than your chronograph detected, so the model is still pretty far off somewhere. Go up in steps to 10 grains in the Long case with water capacity of 16 grains.

    On another front: I ordered a special reamer from Dave Manson to do the pockets for 6mm blanks in our rimfire adaptors. He's going to take a standard .22LR reamer and reduce the body diameter to .2225 +/-0001". This will, I expect, make the process a lot quicker, since the reamer will form the rim recess instead of doing that in a separate operation. Should have it in about three weeks, (just in time for me to be entering rehab for my back surgery - oh, well).
    Great - thanks. I figured to start with 8.0gr of 4227, but wasn't sure how far to go. That reamer sounds really nice. It certainly will be easier to use than drill bits and .224" chucking reamer that i use.

  9. #109
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I'm hoping the .2225 diameter will provide a bit of a press fit for the Walther blanks I have in stock. They're hard to measure, but I think they average about .2230" . If it's too tight I'll have to pass another reamer through. We'll see. At this point I have three .25-10s with mint bores to feed, in addition to a couple of .32 Long rimfires. So I'm probably going to be making quite a few cases over the winter.

    Keep us posted on how the .38 RF loads go. At some point I ought to refine the QL input data I'm using to make the model fit the reality.
    Cognitive Dissident

  10. #110
    Boolit Master

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    To be clear, this .38 I'm working with is the centerfire version of .38 rimfire. I swapped a centerfire block into the #2 RRB rifle.

    For my cases converted to rimfire I use these starter pistol blanks as primers:

    https://www.lcsupply.com/collections...imp-blank-ammo

    They measure .225" - .226" diameter. So using a .224" chucking reamer provides a nice press fit. To seat them, I made a flat top seating anvil that replaces a shell holder in the loading press. I use a die that the case easily slip fits into, but stops on the rim. I place the blank on the anvil, then the case over it. Then raise the ram, which seats the blank flush in the case. It works great.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20210428_121406_copy_326x302.jpg   20210428_121755_copy_282x371.jpg  

  11. #111
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Hmmm - those blanks are bigger than the Walther ones I have. No standardization? I may be happy that I ordered Walther again last week. At least, if I ream small, I can enlarge if necessary. Hard to put metal back.

    I already have that flat-top "shell holder". Made it a long time ago for some purpose that I can't even remember. Lately been using it to size down 32 S&W into .32 Colt, and now Hornet into .25 Stevens.

    Phil
    Cognitive Dissident

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check