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Thread: New Ruger PC Carbine with some test data

  1. #101
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Have you ever looked at an ejected non-fired round for damage? Or setback? Barrel could be bad, twist won't give results like you are seeing.
    Whatever!

  2. #102
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    I did, but not closely or anything. The gun is on its way back to Ruger now.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  3. #103
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    I think you have the wrong caliber if you are looking for great accuracy out to 100 yards. You might find sub sonic 125/147 gr bullets more accurate in the 9MM. The 9MM bullets for the most part are slightly more aero dynamic than a brick when transitioning from sonic to sub sonic. My Ruger will shoot 3" groups with my reloads IF I manage to fire all five rounds at the top of my game. I am no rifleman but that is about as good as I can do and not frequently. For self defense hitting a man sized target out to 100 yds would not be a problem for me. I can hit clay pidgins off a bench at 50 yards. Whether the carbine is capable do more would be an answer for a better shooter than I to answer.

    If you are looking for a true tack driver I would think there are better rifle/caliber combinations out there.

    A friends CZ 9MM Skorpion is more accurate than the Ruger but is a bit more spendier up here than the Ruger.

    Both the CZ and Ruger up here come with 18"+ barrels to conform to our Laws.

    Take Care

    Bob
    PS the CZ Skorpion also comes in what you refer to as a pistol version.
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon..... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to s#!t on the board and strut around like it won anyway."

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  4. #104
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob. To clarify, I'm not planning to ever shoot it at 100 yards nor am I expecting this carbine to meet anyone's definition of a tack driver. I would be delighted with good accuracy out to 50 yards, hopefully it will be able to do that when it comes back. It's no special trick to shoot neat groups at 50 using .38 Specials in my Marlin 1894 or any round under the sun in any of my .22 rifles. I don't think this is unreasonable, and the fact that known good cast boolits were hitting all over the place tells me that something is wrong here.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  5. #105
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Ferg I agree. I see you have a Marlin 1894. One of the last guns on my bucket lists to get. Every time I get close something else nudges it out. Before the bell tolls this kid is getting one. Looking at a M&P Compact with a 4.25" barrel right now then, who knows.

    Good luck I hope Ruger comes through for you.

    Take Care

    Bob
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon..... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to s#!t on the board and strut around like it won anyway."

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  6. #106
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Thanks bro. Hopefully, the Rugerlin 1894's will be available soon.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  7. #107
    Boolit Master



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    My short barreled rifle made from a Marlin Camp 9 will keep a full 12 round magazine on a 9 inch paper plate at 200 yards. So under a 9 inch group, never measured the group size. (shot with the CAC 9 on it)

    I am very happy with it it is not a bench rest rifle.

  8. #108
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    They deliver usable accuracy. And that's all any gun should do. My PCC.40 is about 2" at 50 yards.

    One thing about Ruger/Marlins,,, First we had Marlins, then we got "Remlins."

    I am voting for "Rugarlins" as the new name for these guns. "Ruglins" is just not enough.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  9. #109
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Got a message from Ruger, the carbine has been repaired (hopefully) and is headed back to me. I would be totally satisfied with 2" at 50 yards, lets hope that happens.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  10. #110
    Boolit Man Norcal707's Avatar
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    Wonder what the issue was? My PC with a Holosun red dot easily pops soda cans/clays at 50yds offhand and 10" AR500 plate at 100yds rested.

  11. #111
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Yesterday I mounted a 1x4 scope on my PCC. Once sighted in I was shooting 1" groups at 50 yards with my FMJ RN and Truncated cone lead bullets. I was surprised both loads were POA. All I got was a 1" hole that on the target with both loads. The gun seems to be very accurate with glass sitting on it, in a rest. I might be able to get close to that sitting but standing free hand not likely. LOL It isn't the gun that need new parts....how about a couple of fresh lens, a couple of back vertebra and a few joints here and there. There needs to be a body shop for humans. LOL

    My PCC will shoot with my CZ Scorpian and that is saying a lot.

    Take Care

    Bob
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon..... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to s#!t on the board and strut around like it won anyway."

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  12. #112
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    1" groups with FMJ or lead at 50 yards would be awesome. I hope Ruger just put a new barrel on and called it good, I can't imagine what else it could need.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  13. #113
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    1" groups with FMJ or lead at 50 yards would be awesome. I hope Ruger just put a new barrel on and called it good, I can't imagine what else it could need.
    Having a scope on the gun is really the only way you can test for accuracy in my opinion, that and a decent rest. Most of the shooters I know are not the rock solid free style shooters we think we are. I do hope it works out for you, very happy with mine.

    Take Care

    Bob
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon..... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to s#!t on the board and strut around like it won anyway."

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  14. #114
    Boolit Master



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    i check on 'my thread' about the velocity increase over my g26 every once in awhile.

    i'm glad mine has been a 'good one' for me.

    the lee 125gn round flat just pop pop pops.

    the red dot on the carbine gives smaller groups than the iron sights day in day out.

    WebMonkey
    Retired 19D
    Psalm 91:9
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  15. #115
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Got the carbine back, Ruger did indeed replace the barrel. I found that the threaded Williams WGRS aperture holder fits on the rear sight base no problem so I installed that. The OEM aperture is way too big for anything past 25 yards. That done, the carbine is now shooting tight groups at 50 yards with factory 115 grain FMJ.

    Web Monkey, what load and OAL are you using with the Lee 125? I tried 4 grains of Green Dot under this boolit at 1.030 OAL and accuracy was definitely better than it had been with the old barrel but still not great. I size 'em to .358 and use RCBS 80008 lube.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  16. #116
    Boolit Master

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    Have begun wringing mine out with three types of Winchester ammo - 115 grain ball, 147 grain "Winclean" indoor training ammo, and 147 grain T-Series duty loads. The current optic is a 2 MOA red dot. My innovation/inspiration was to put some anti-seize on the mating washer between the front & back halves and use plastic jawed pliers to get a little more purchase on tightening up the adjustment nut. Ten shot groups were fired from the bench with the assumption being that neither the ammo, the optic, nor the rifle are really optimized for the sniper game, so the larger sample probably more easily tells us where the system trends.

    At the 75 yard distance that seemed most ideal for a practical zero:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Same stuff at 100 yards:

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    The impression I get from the groups at both distances is that this thing WANTS to be about a 3 MOA platform - provided that the ammo, aiming system, and shooter are all up to snuff. I may revisit this same experiment with a 1.5-5x scope stolen from an AR to improve the aiming apparatus and a chronograph to see if the fliers can be traced to variability in ammo that won't matter in the pistols it's made for, but becomes readily apparent when you extend the range to triple or quadruple the normal operating distance.

    The practicality of the system ,I think, becomes more apparent here:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's shooting it on our rifle qual course, which is 30 rounds from various positions and distances moving up from 100 to 15 yards. Pretty much the same score I shoot with the M4 platform, so at no disadvantage in accuracy for "social engagements". Given that it eats from your pistol magazines and VASTLY improves the average user's capability to deliver precision over that handgun I think is rather significant.

    Think I'm gonna keep it!
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  17. #117
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Well, looks like yours prefers the 147 grain slugs for sure. I tried mine again with the Lee 358-125-RF and 3.7 grains Green Dot. Accuracy is definitely improved over the old barrel but still not as good as jacketed. The carbine is still pretty inconsistent with lead slugs, a fair number of flyers. Maybe that will improve if I break in the barrel with a few hundred jacketed rounds, of course that is not an easy or cheap thing to do these days.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  18. #118
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Well, looks like yours prefers the 147 grain slugs for sure. I tried mine again with the Lee 358-125-RF and 3.7 grains Green Dot. Accuracy is definitely improved over the old barrel but still not as good as jacketed. The carbine is still pretty inconsistent with lead slugs, a fair number of flyers. Maybe that will improve if I break in the barrel with a few hundred jacketed rounds, of course that is not an easy or cheap thing to do these days.

    What are you sizing your lead bullets at? I size my 356402 125gr TC billets .357 with good results. Both lead and jacketed group the same and I am happy. I can't think of a reason why your gun should not shoot lead bullets well.

    Good luck with your quest. I don't think shooting a bunch of jacketed bullets is going to help much. I know I would not waste my money on doint it.

    Take Care

    Bob
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon..... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to s#!t on the board and strut around like it won anyway."

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  19. #119
    Boolit Master

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    Handloading subject will be the NOE/Ranch Dog 135gr. tumble luber.

    Current operating theory is to keep it at or below Eley's Tenex .22LR stated 1085 fps, which should be subsonic at altitudes below about 8200 feet. Should avoid the trans-sonic wacky this way, and still have enough acceptable ooom-pah.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  20. #120
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    What are you sizing your lead bullets at? I size my 356402 125gr TC billets .357 with good results. Both lead and jacketed group the same and I am happy. I can't think of a reason why your gun should not shoot lead bullets well.

    Good luck with your quest. I don't think shooting a bunch of jacketed bullets is going to help much. I know I would not waste my money on doint it.

    Take Care

    Bob
    I size mine to .358. I have some .357 that I can also try. What powder and charge does yours like? I tried Green Dot first because I've never found a gun or cartridge that wouldn't shoot it with good accuracy.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check