Lubrisizer & Mold advice needed...

[JackOfAllTrades]

I haven't pour'd any lead in years. I have at hand the old Lee means of dry sizer die in a press. I have some Lee aluminum molds in various handgun calibers. The way I'm familiar with to lube my fine boolits is to heat the alox to liquid form in a tin pan, set the boolits in to fill the grooves, chill, then 'cookie cut' them out, then run through the sizer. Works OK, but I want to produce more volume and better sized/lubed boolits for upcoming Bullseye league. I've missed out on a couple Lyman 45/450's on Ebay recently. -Actually, the most recent one sold for near 90% of new price. Dang! I might try the Lee teflon lube.

I shoot rimfire Bullseye now, scores are ~558/600. I will be shooting Kimber or older Clark 1911 45acp. I expect scores to be near the same or better in the near future as long as I can turn out quality projectiles.

OK, I need specific answers as to why one is better than the other.

Lyman/Ideal 45

Lyman 450

Lyman 4500

Lyman 4500 with base heater or heating rod

Star Lubrisizer With/without base heater
***********************

Lee aluminum molds

Lyman steel molds

Lyman or H&G cast molds

Multiple cavity molds or single cavity molds
***********************
Lube/Sizing dies. Star? Lyman? .451 or .452"

Thank you. -Steve

[carpetman]

Jack of all trades----I don't know why you don't have the RCBS luber on your list. It would be my pick of the litter. The RCBS top punches and dies interchange with Lyman 45's and 450's. Plus you get the great RCBS warranty and I do think the RCBS holds pressure better than Lymans do. Prices are close to the same.

[XBT]

I agree with carpetman and will add that the RCBS molds are my favorite.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm on my third Lyman 450--well, second really--#3 was given to a friend to get him started. If replacement becomes necessary, it will be with the RCBS unit for all the reasons stated above.

I heat the lubes in cooler weather with one of the many blowdryers that become available when you share residency with a wife and several daughters.

As for molds, I would rate NEI and Mountain Molds as picks of the litter, SAECO a close second, RCBS third, and Lyman at fourth. These last two lose status because they often are undersized when casting with WW or Taracorp alloy, in 44 and 45 calibers particularly. Lee 1- and 2-holers are no-deposit/no-returns, while their 6-holers are considerably better--somewhere between Lyman and RCBS.

A 1-cavity mold might be all right for a Ruger #1 or bolt rifle, but multi-cavity molds boost production. 2 holers for most rifles are fine, and the 4-6 bangers really put out the boolits for high-volume shooting like revolvers and autopistols can create. Having a 1-hole Lyman #257312, it takes a LONG time to fill up a 1# coffee can with castings. The RCBS 243-100 is a lot more efficient. Even as a retiree, my time is worth something.

[David R]

In MY opinion, a 2 cavity will work fine. I can pour at least 250 boolits sometimes 350 in 30 minutes. That means in less than 2 hours of casting time you can end up with at least 1,000 boolits.

Ditto to what Deputy AL said about the single cavity. No use for it in my home.

451 or 452? Slug your bore. If not, go for the 452, bigger is better in this business.

I have the 450 and love it. I am sure there are better, but this one works fine for me.

Have a BLAST!

David

[Buckshot]

..........JackOfAllTrades, A hearty welcome to the board! You'll have to pick and sift amongst the responces as they'll be as many different as people replying

Lyman/Ideal 45

Lyman 450

Lyman 4500

Lyman 4500 with base heater or heating rod

...........The above are all fine. They go for years and many thousands use them. I have 3 of'em plus a used RCBS I haven't used yet. From looks I'd think the RCBS the better even though they're both very similar.

The heater is required for the high temp more waxy type lubes. So if you plan on using those, the heater is a must.

Lee aluminum molds

Lyman steel molds

Lyman or H&G cast molds

Multiple cavity molds or single cavity molds

.............Lee moulds usually drop an excellent slug. Normal problems especially in rifle slugs is that they drop smaller on the OD then most would like to see. Lee moulds self destruct just by using them, even with great care. Mainly a material & design thing. Great deal for the money though. Their 6 cavity jobs are way better.

............Lyman? Lets do it this way for the common ferrous blocks. I'd rate them RCBS & Saeco tied for 1st. Lyman would be 2nd or 3rd. Lyman cuts a good cavity and all. RCBS & Saeco are no better but thier block designs and sprueplates move them ahead of Lyman in my standings. My Mtn Mould and NEI blocks are aluminum. While a magnitude better then Lee 1 or 2 cavity, they're still alum. I've not seen either's iron offerings.

.............H&G is legendary for their mould quality. Problem is they're out of business and their stuff brings a premium. I'm not a mould collector so they're a non-starter for me.

.............Multiple or single cavity? Depends on what you're wanting to accomplish. I'd suspect most shooters after ultimate cast accuracy use a single, or at most 2 cavity set of blocks. And even then they get inspected and scaled.

Lube/Sizing dies. Star? Lyman? .451 or .452"

.............You'll have to use the dies for whatever press you get (RCBS/Lyman interchange). What die to use will depend upon your pistol. No recomendation from me.

You mentioned Bullseye competition and a 1911? My suggestion would be to get a Lee 2 cav mould for their 190gr SWC. Then get a bottle of thier Liquid Alox (LA) and a Lee push through sizer in the diameter for which your pistol shows a preference. The push through sizer has 2 things going for it. They're the most accurate, and they're the fastest. The negative is that they do not apply lube, they size only. Hense the Lee LA.

For the loads used in BE competition the LA will be great. That's all I use on WC's for my K38. The slugs don't have to be designed for the LA either. A regular lube grooved slug works just fine.

..............Buckshot

[Char-Gar]

We are a bunch of cheapskates on this board and most of our stuff comes from the hardware store, held together with chewing gum, duct tape and bailing wire.

So the question is..is money an issue? When you talk about the "best" way to do something, we always have to talk about how much we are willing to spend for the "best".

The absolute "best" is what several generations of Bulllseye shooters have learned. Buy a Star lube sizer and Hensley & Gibbs 6 to 10 cavity mold. These molds are available on ebay, and they do bring a premium price. On the Star sizer get the punch that allows you to size the bullets nose first.

Next down the line is a Lyman or RCBS lubesizer and 4 cavity Lyman or SAECO molds. I have 4 Lyman lubesizers and have used one or more of them for 45 years with total satisfaction. But as others have stated RCBS has much better customer service and that is what I would buy, if I wanted to buy a new one.

In the "Days of Your" I shot Bullsye pistol and trust me you don't want a double cavity mold. You want as many holes in that mold as you can afford. To master that 45 requires lots and lots of ammo.

I don't have a lube heater of any kind. I have always used a softer lube that did not require one. I don't plan on changing now.

Lots of luck and keep em in the X-ring.

[Willbird]

I agree 100% on the Star Sizer and H&G molds, and if you want to look at it in a good light from the angle of CHEEP, they are FREE.

Thats right they are totally free, you buy them, you use them as intended, when you get so old you can't fart without needing cleaned up then you sell them and get all your money back, probably plus some.

For bullseye I would set down and take a real hard look at if you want to use cast on the 50 yard line, if you do then hunt a single cavity Lyman mold or have Dan make you a real sweet mold just for that, and then buy a multi cavity mold for the 25 yard line.....you can make the benchrest quality 50 yard boolits when the moon is in the proper phase and while wafting sage smoke around the room to get the spirits all in harmony, and with a 6-8-10 cavity mold you can work for a couple weeks each year and cast a 55 gallon drum of 25 yard boolits.

I know a Lyman 452460 made very carefully from a single cavity that I tuned will shoot 5 shots into 1.25" at 50 yards from ransom rest, multi cavity Lee bullets went about twice that, it would be worth it to me.....and it helps the head game too to make the 50 yard boollits especialy, and maybe even run them all across a scale quick to make sure there are no light ones (means a void in the bullet)

Bill

[sundog]

Charger said, "We are a bunch of cheapskates on this board and most of our stuff comes from the hardware store, held together with chewing gum, duct tape and bailing wire."

Yea, so? ROTFLMAO! And loaf pans for ingo moulds from wallyworld, and what-not from craft stores, and, and, and....

But, you're right. Quality begets quality. That doesn't stop us from being frugal. Imagine, we spend a couple hunert dollars on one Jump's Holy Golden Boolit moulds, and what do we do with it? Pour lowly WWs (that we swapped for, of all things, a case of beer. Beer? Uh-huh.) through them that have been soaked in, the shame of it, not Holy Water, but dog pee. Just doesn't make any sense.... sundog

[The Nyack Kid]

We are a bunch of cheapskates on this board and most of our stuff comes from the hardware store, held together with chewing gum, duct tape and bailing wire.

Gee Charger aint that a bit harsh ? just because ive got some photos in a disposable wallyworld camra that the whole board wants to veiw and the only reason that i havnt taken the camra in to be developed , is cause there are 3 photos left on it , dont make me cheap . It means im lazy .

the Star luber/sizer is the best out there .
the next best would be the Saeco lubesizer , though the star is about three times faster . if you go with the star you are going to need at least a 4-cav mold to keep it feed , and a Dillon press to keep the boolits from burying your reloading area.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Looks like one of you considerate and generous souls has also emailed me with a very nice mold/die offer.

As stated, quality is relative to price, and for now, I don't mind hitting the ground running middle of the road. I've got my eye on a used RCBS sizer, Lyman 452460 4cav, and Lyman Sizer/toppunch. If I don't end up with the RCBS, then I'm keeping my eye out for a Star or RCBS.

On another forum, I also asked about the direction of travel of the slug while sizing. I would think that forward motion would be best. ??? I know I read it here somewhere- says something about getting a top punch that allows pushing the bullit from the base. Please explain.

Buckshot, I do have the Lee pushthrough sizer. Always pushing from the base, up through. Sizing is quick, it's the lubing that's a pain in the ****. I do weigh my castings from my Lee 230gn mold. I toss out about 3% of slugs.

Now for the 190/200gn smeltings (spring), I'll be at the 25yd line for a local 500series Duello, (as close to centerfire Bullseye I can get locally, but there's more of us in Rimfire Bullseye buying 45's that I'm encouraged that in the next year or so that the two local clubs will start some good ole competition.) I'll need relative quality boolits for that distance, but when/if I travel to shoot, I'll have had boolits done up with a good single cavity mold for the 75yd line.

Oh, and I do have an old Dillon 450 with some 550 features. I can easily turn out 100 quality loaded cartridges an hour. (I preprime my brass with a hand primer) A few evenings in the gun room a week, and I've got thousands. I'm building up my brass stash now. 2500 and counting.

-Steve

Oh, and Nyack,, I have a disposable camera that's been in the door panel of the truck for three years. About four shots left on it. The last shot, two years ago, was a photo of a Blacktail buck track in the fresh snow with a loaded 338winmag next to it. Buck track was a bit longer. Friends keep bugging me to get that film developed.

Got my first Whitetail this year. 7 hour drive. 7 hours of hunting over arrival and departure days. 7 hour drive back home. http://www.cnw.com/~hotrod/Hunting/5...5Whitetail.JPG Brother n' law that was there for the week (Public land), was pi$$ed!

A little about me.. I like Fords. I drive a Ford Diesel with manual transmission. I'll shoot almost anything once. (firearms) (I'll shoot game a second time to put it out of it's misery) -That's what I teach my boys. I hunt with pistol quite often. I'm not really into military weapons or antique cartridges, but do appreciate proven design of 'Big and heavy' hits hard. When hunting I wear wool. Not Gortex. I hunt in the woods. Not on farm land. I'm a computer geek by trade. But that's just work. I reload for every one of my firearms. (sans rimfire- Duh) The 100% lead/alloy is for .45acp, .44mag, .357mag and 38spl. (Selling my 9mm) I don't do lead for the rifle velocities. My primary rifles are a Ruger77 in 30-338 & sporterized Springfield 03A3. My pistolas are Ruger, Colt, Dan Wesson or Kimber. I don't do assault rifle anything. I tell it the way I see it. If I don't know, I ask.

[Char-Gar]

I calls em the way I sees em! I didn't used to be cheap, but you guys have ruint me.

A few years back, I bought a neat gizmo called the Patch Hog from Sinclair Intl. It caught the dirty patches as it came out of the barrel. I though it was pretty neat and wanted to share my discovery with the old board.

My GAWD! You would have thought I flushed money down the toilet. I got the bronx cheer from the board, with the admonition to put a waste basked under the muzzel or use a grocery sack stuck on with a rubber band. The general consensus was that anything bought from Sinclair was money wasted as everything they sold was over priced.

Do I still by stuff from Sinclair? I ain't telling..no siree!

I just calls em the way I sees em!

[Cherokee]

Jack - regarding the Star and top punch that allows pushing the bullet from the base; that is a top punch with a flat face less than the diameter of the sizing die. Drop the bullet nose first into the sizing die, then bring the punch down to push it thru the sizer. All the pressure is placed on the base, like the Lee push-thru sizer.

I have Star and Lyman #45 & #4500 sizers. Use Heaters on Star and 4500 because of the harder lube I usually use. The #45 is loaded with soft lube. All have their use.

The 452460 is a very good bullet in 45 ACP. I have used lots of them.

I have Dillon 650 for the high volume loading but I still inspect my cases by hand during a separate sizing operation on my single stage press and I always prime by hand. Old habbits and I like it that way.

Good luck and have fun.........

[Buckshot]

"..........A few years back, I bought a neat gizmo called the Patch Hog from Sinclair Intl. It caught the dirty patches as it came out of the barrel. I though it was pretty neat and wanted to share my discovery with the old board. My GAWD! You would have thought I flushed money down the toilet."

HA! I think I remember that Charger. I buy diaper flannel for patches. I thought I could wash'em and reuse'em! After clogging up the warshin' machine after they came unraveled, and having it flush water all over the utility room I have given up that idea.

................Buckshot

[The Nyack Kid]

with them fancy bore gizmos , a guy can collect his patchs and reuse them . or just use a soda pop bottle .though i just grab the darn thing and use the other side before i toss it .

"wash'em and reuse'em!" buckshot you're my hero

[Scrounger]

I have more patches than I will ever need but for some reason I prefer to use that heavy duty blue paper towel you clean windshields with, I think it does a better job, it's more absorbent...

[Bigscot]

Speaking of cheap, a fellow once told me he knew of a guy who would pick up spent shotgun wads and reuse them. Yes that was shotgun wads, not shells.

Bigscot

[C1PNR]

http://www.cnw.com/~hotrod/Hunting/5...5Whitetail.JPG

Steve, I've just gotta ask!

Is this a picture of a Buck you shot, or is it a pet that agreed to pose for a portrait? I'd swear it's WINKING at us!!

[JackOfAllTrades]

All gutted and bleading on my pantleg. Two shots. First one, he down in the gully, broke his spine. I put a .44 slug in him to put him down. My first Whitetail hunt. I thought Blacktail where a bit tough to get. But them Whitetails are skiddish. Even the doe's.

I like Mule deer hunting though. They're born with that 'deer in the headlight look'. Staring at you as you pull the trigger.

-Steve

[JackOfAllTrades]

Well? But of course! I'm cheap too. And to further that, two Cast BOOLITS members have taken pitty on me and pawned off their unused, unwanted forming, lubricating and sizing devices. Today I recieved a Lyman 450 in terrific condition. But alas, I'm a kid on Christmas, when mom forgot batteries for my new electronic gismo. Mr postman still has the mold, size die and top punch. I know they're on the way. But still, it pains me that I can't play with my new toy. It's already full of lube and mounted on the bench.

Still many thanx to kywoodwrkr and floodgate.

-Steve