cast with copper driving bands-PIK

[castalott]

Hi All!

I found an experiment from 20 years ago and thought to share it with you...

It's a 311332 with homemade check and copper bands in the driving band areas. This might work but is a real pain to cut the copper bands exactly the right size and get them in the right place in the hot mold. Now which book did I read about this to try it????

[drinks]

A friend in Ontario sent me some gas checks with a hole in the middle and some cast bullets using them, it is dropped in the mold at the first driving band, the bullet poured and a regular gas check crimped on the bottom.
I can ask him for the maker's name if you are interested.

[Frank46]

Dale, you probably read about the copper driving bands in one of either rifle/handloader
cast bullet annuals that they published some years back. Think they were called wick
bullets after the inventor David Wick not sure of the first name. Seems to me that if you could get ahold of a small hobby lathe you could mass produce them easier. I guess that you tried using a tubing cutter or something similar. Frank

[castalott]

Hi Drinks & Frank!

Thanks Drinks but I am too busy to try it right now. Besides, I get all the power I need from a 'stock' anyway...

Hi Frank I've been meaning to ask how things are going for you. Well, I hope! Finally huricane season is over (officially anyway). Been quite a year for all of you down south. My thoughts are still with you..

I guess what I like about this hobby is the chance to think and dream and experiment.... and still have something very practical for everyday use....

Best to all....

Dale

[1Shirt]

There was a lot of interest in this back in the late 40's and early 50's. They were called, if I remember driving bands, and the little copper coils were inserted in the molds w/needle nose pliers. Think that they were called Barnes Driving Bands, but don't hold on old man's memory to that. Remember for sure that they were listed in some of the old Lyman reloading manuals. I remember screwing around with a few of them when the hair had no gray, and have always been willing to try most anything once. They were a real pain, was easy to get burned, hard to keep the mold hot, and they didn't shoot worth anything in an 06 or 30-30. Will see if I can dig up one of the old Lyman manuals for more specific definations.
1Shirt

[Newtire]

This was called the "Wilkes" check. Was out of an old Handloader article from the early '90s. I made up some of these & there was one drawback that I recall. This was getting the mold to close on those two bands squarely. I used the 311291 as a Guinea pig. Maybe someone could develop this into a real great shooter. It was a big headache for me & there was the option of FLGC! We used a tool available from Harbor Freight to punch holes in the gas checks. A friend of mine had one!

[Frank46]

Dale, things are back to normal for us, but my wifes relatives are scattered from new york, omaha,and texas. The ones here are having an ongoing battle with the insurance companies, murphy oil and fema. Still have boxes of clothing that we received from other relatives. My sun room looks like the salvation army. Sorry to get off track guys. Frank

[Frank46]

Dale, found the article mentioned. Handloader's bullet making annual dated 1990. It's called the Wilk gas check. The story was done by Dave Scoville.The copper bands were made out of gas checks swaged in special dies, inserted into the mold and the metal poured into the mold. If you want a copy send me your snail mail address and will photo copy it and send it to you. Frank

[buck1]

There was a lot of interest in this back in the late 40's and early 50's. They were called, if I remember driving bands, and the little copper coils were inserted in the molds w/needle nose pliers. Think that they were called Barnes Driving Bands, but don't hold on old man's memory to that. Remember for sure that they were listed in some of the old Lyman reloading manuals. I remember screwing around with a few of them when the hair had no gray, and have always been willing to try most anything once. They were a real pain, was easy to get burned, hard to keep the mold hot, and they didn't shoot worth anything in an 06 or 30-30. Will see if I can dig up one of the old Lyman manuals for more specific definations.
1Shirt

Handloader had it too, But 1shirts memory rings true with mine also. I think someone rediscovered it later on. ...Buck

[1Shirt]

Thanks BUCK1, guess you probably have a bit of gray in the temples as well. Now I will really have to start pawing back through the books to find the things. They were of the same period if memory serves me right as the zinc washer as scrapers in the base of a special mold for cast pistol boolits. Even remember shooting a few of those things. Strange how things seem to get reinvented over time. Was told that the patent on the safety pin was a big deal about turn of the century, and then some archeologist dug up the predecisor(sp) to one of them in some Roman ruins.
1Shirt

[ruth2]

I also have the old Lyman manuals with the duplex loads. some of the old fellows swore by them.I used a load in the 06 that was ,if I remember correctly,2.5 grs of Bullseye and I think about 15 grs of 4198,with a 180 gr..Didn't really shoot any better than a single loading,just added another step.

[Bent Ramrod]

Guys,

I think the first edition were "Henninger-Barnes Driving Bands" and were marketed by Santa Anita Engineering Co. (SAECO) to fit their .30 caliber molds. The samples I've found will fit some Lyman .30 calibers as well. These were rings of metal that could be placed in the mold grooves with tweezers or needle-nose pliers, with a little practice, and the bullet cast around it (or them, if you used one for each groove).

If I read the article correctly, Wilke actually used gas checks which he perforated in the middle with a punch to allow the lead to flow through. These were put into the mold grooves and cast around in the same way.

Like 1Shirt, I've never noticed any increase in accuracy using these things over the same bullets without the driving bands at normal cast bullet velocities, and have never seen that they enhanced the bullets' ability to withstand high velocities either. However, my experience is still limited (have shot up about 1/3 of a box of the Henninger-Barnes rings so far). One thing that ought to be kept in mind is that with the ridiculous prices gas checks are bringing any more, and the probability that these driving bands would cost at least as much, by the time your cast bullet is tricked up with a full array of these doodads, and a gas check to boot, you're over the price of a jacketed bullet in the same caliber, for less velocity and less accuracy, unless you've got everything just right. Kind of goes against the basic reason for using cast, for me anyway, which is to overindulge my shooting jones for cheep.