Unique ?smokless? power replacement

[.45Cole]

first off, lets redesignate unique as semi-smokeless. Use it in .45colts and it's a little smoky. Tried it for 230gr .45autos and it was bad smoking (dusted it off our shirts). Anybody have a good replacement (looking at AA 5 but not good for 1000fps 200gr loads in colt or 230gr in auto). I saw thatunique's rate is around 231/hp-38, but i think that the density of 231 is greater (need low density for colt) Also, herco and power pistol are listed as close burn rate, but no data. Used for 230gr, 200gr, and 255gr colts at about 1000fps and 230gr autos at about mild recoil. Any input helpful, loads better, total solution praised

[spurrit]

I really like Trail boss. A double charge will overflow, so it's got the safety factor built in.

With my .45 Colt, I can load it to where it's uncomfortable to shoot, if I want, but it's just not necessary, even for service loads. If you go above the recommended loads, you get diminishing returns. (More recoil for not much gain)

It's NOT a magnum powder, but will get you up into The 900+ FPS range. If you want to break 1,000 FPS, you're gonna have to go with little bitty bullets.

[jimkim]

Have you thought about Universal Clays? Check out the Hodgdon websight.

[spurrit]

Also, forgot to mention; Trail Boss isn't as filthy as Unique, and doesn't stink.

[Treeman]

Unique is unique. No powder has a wider breadth of tested and proven applications. .....However, there are a number of powders of similar burning rate that will function over a wide spectrum as well. ADI's comparitive burning rate chart shows SR7625 is within 5% of Unique's burning rate as well as Universal and Vihtavouri N330. Others have mentioned that AA 5 is close also....but it is rated as fasterand 231 is faster still. Herco is slower but lots of people report using virtually the same loads as Unique in many cartridgesand getting the same velocities. Just goes to show that burning rate is somewaht relevant but things change from cartridge to cartridge and component combo to component combo. For what ever it may be worth I have come to really like PB for general handgun target work. It is much cleaner than the Alliant powders and meters very very well. Old but never enormously popular... Who knows why? I think Hercules not only got into the biz early but they captured a big distribution early enough that lots of stores never sought to stock much else and people kept on learning on Bullseye and Unique. BTW, PB is faster than Unique, similar to Red Dot and 231

[felix]

PB is a single base version of GD (GreenDot). ... felix

[Potsy]

Universal Clays Rocks!!
Low extreme spreads, tight groups, and clean burning is the name of the game!!!

.45 Colt-Lyman 454424-Starline Brass-CCI 300 Primer-9.0 Grn. Universal Clays.
This load give 1000 fps out of my 5-1/2" Bisley. The cylinderfull I chronied gave a 13fps extreme spread!! With a wheelweight bullet, I don't have much trouble keeping them all in
3" at 25 yards, and I'm no great pistolero. Off a rest, I can usually keep 4 or 5 out of 6 in one ragged hole. As far as mid-range loads that I would point at about anything within reason, this load is tough to beat!!! Bear in mind, this load is fine out of a Ruger Bisley, but I might back off to 8 grains in an old colt or imported model. It does not take up so much room that it cannot be double-loaded!

.45 ACP-Lee 200 grn SWC-Anybody's brass-CCI 300 Primer-6.5 Grn. Universal Clays
This load runs 880-950 out of mixed brass, I've never chronied a magfull of loads with the same headstamp. Mixed brass not withstanding, 3" @ 25 yards offhand is the norm. If your brass is all one headstamp, you might fine tune for about 900 fps.

.45 ACP-Lee 230 TC-Anybody's brass-CCI 300 Primer-6.0 Grn. Universal Clays
I only ran a few of these before I discovered a 200 grn mould, but the few I chronied ran around 850 fps (my notes on this load aren't real great). Groups were in the 3" range (offhand), which, again, is about the best I can do.

Take care not to confuse Universal Clays with the faster Clays and International Clays. The burn rate is extremely close to Unique, which is handy. For lighter loads, clays is good stuff, but I've not used near as much as the slower Universal Clays. I don't think Universal makes a great light load powder, nor do I use it when revving up a .45 colt, but for mid range loads, I've quit experimenting with anything else.

[missionary5155]

The first cartridge I loaded was with Unique and I still think it is Fantastic. Works well in everything I have ever tried 32 Colt through 12 Bore Round ball. The lower the chamber pressure the sootier it is. I shoot it in 38 special, +P , 357 mag , 41 Long Colt ; and 44-40 down south here. Up the pressure and it burns better. Magnum 357 loads (8-9 grains) with 158 + grain projectiles and I do not see any offensive ugly smelly results. Unique is like most powders... they all have there Quirks...

[Maven]

missionary...., I was going to suggest Hodgdon CLAYS (not Universal Clays), but having just read an article on Alliant Red Dot in the Nov. 2008 "Handloader" magazine, I'd recommend taking a good look at it and Alliant's loading data for it.

[35remington]

Not to be a wet blanket on the Universal Clays love in, but those who use it should try the following test in .45 ACP:

With 200 or 230, position powder near bullet, level gun slowly and fire.

Powder near primer, level gun slowly and fire.

I find up to 100 fps extreme spreads in so doing. Unique will be half that at equivalent velocities. Which is why I don't consider Universal Clays to be an improvement over Unique in .45 ACP.

As loads approach ACP operating levels, Unique is quite sufficiently clean. Considering the "cleanliness" of many cast bullet loads using low pressure charges of rifle powders, any pistol powder, Unique included, is quite sufficiently clean burning when run in its operating range.

Those that think Unique is smoky and dirty in .45 ACP in standard velocity equivalent loads ain't seen dirty, really. I can shoot my 1911 all day using Unique and it cleans up easily. Smoke is primarily from the lubricant on cast bullets, and is almost nil with jacketed.

[Maximilian225]

I'm planning on testing some titegroup soon the reloading data looks good for it, especially for 45 colt and 45 Auto. Best part is I can get it locally for 16.89 a lb.

[Treeman]

PB is a single base version of GD (GreenDot). ... felix

Felix that pegs PB fairly closely...though technically I think GD is a tad slower. Red Dot is about 2 tads faster than PB. May I presume that you were trying to give a relative speed/application reference rather than a reference to the powders actual manufacture?

[felix]

True with what you said. No two lots of powder are the same, even with the same number. V_V powders are the most consistent from lot to lot of any that I have used to date, starting in 1955. Some of these lots with the same number have shown to be within one tenth grain of difference in performance, and even that is by speculation because of other variables. So, let's say with 100 percent confidence every powder lot, and every can for that matter when bought in different locations and time, are different. ... felix

[missionary5155]

[QUOTE=Maven;400144]missionary...., I was going to suggest Hodgdon CLAYS (not Universal Clays), but having just read an article on Alliant Red Dot in the Nov. 2008 "Handloader" magazine, I'd recommend taking a good look at it and Alliant's loading data for it.[/QUOTE

Howdy Maven I would be thrilled to have any other powder available here.. Pickens are real slim... That´s why I use Unique for near everything. Next year we return to the world of "Organised Traffic... and Supplies"... What a joy it is to "Have to decide" which powder.... But I am happy to have my meager supply of Unique.

[.45Cole]

I guess I'm asking too much of a powder to do 45 autos and light and heavy colts. Unique is great for the loads, but is dirty (everything costs something). I DID read that the Ultramax(or something like it ) I bought at Sportman's were"loaded with accurate powder" 230gr RN. Does anybody know if it's #2 or #3. Box is usa, red whit blue colored.

[spurrit]

Not to be a wet blanket on the Universal Clays love in, but those who use it should try the following test in .45 ACP:

With 200 or 230, position powder near bullet, level gun slowly and fire.

Powder near primer, level gun slowly and fire.

I find up to 100 fps extreme spreads in so doing. Unique will be half that at equivalent velocities. Which is why I don't consider Universal Clays to be an improvement over Unique in .45 ACP.

As loads approach ACP operating levels, Unique is quite sufficiently clean. Considering the "cleanliness" of many cast bullet loads using low pressure charges of rifle powders, any pistol powder, Unique included, is quite sufficiently clean burning when run in its operating range.

Those that think Unique is smoky and dirty in .45 ACP in standard velocity equivalent loads ain't seen dirty, really. I can shoot my 1911 all day using Unique and it cleans up easily. Smoke is primarily from the lubricant on cast bullets, and is almost nil with jacketed.

When I switched from usig unique, I was using the same components as before, just a different powder. Most of the smoke and nastiness disappeared.

[kir_kenix]

I really like unique, and have used it in just about everything I've ever reloaded. I've found that it sometimes takes some tweaking to find a load that burns cleanly, but it is usually achiavable. I don't think there is any other powder that can be used satisfactorily over such a wide range of cartridges and applications.

I will always keep a few lbs of unique around, it's always such a handy powder. You might just have to play around with your loads a bit to get it burn cleaner.

[Potsy]

I still having my Universal Clays "Love In" (that was pretty good). But I went over my notes and I'll throw in a few "qualifiers".

First, my experience with Unique is limited to a couple of pounds worth in a .45 Colt only, several years ago. Since then it is my understanding that they have cleaned the powder up somewhat and lowered extreme spreads. Futher, I wasn't casting back then, I was using commercial cast bullets, that and practice and experience would probably have more to do with tighter groups than the difference between Universal & Unique.

Also, thus far I've had little luck with Universal in the .38 Special.

Further, my cast loads with Universal & Unique "smoke". They do smoke less with Universal, but most of any smoke is because of the lube, as .35 Remington pointed out, jacketed loads smoke hardly at all with either powder. And even as clean as Universal is, because of the lube, my .45 Auto is pretty nasty after a few hundred rounds.

Also, even though burn rates are similar, I don't know that Universal shares any rifle applications with Unique. But I don't have any rifle loads that would call for either powder.

As much as I love Universal, I realize that it would be silly to knock Unique considering that there only been several hundred tons of it burned in .45 Colts and .45 ACP's with excellent results.

[spurrit]

The same could be said for black powder, but there are better choices than either.

[35remington]

In fairness, I'm not down on Universal, really, as it has applications such as in light charges (3.0 grain range) where Unique cannot meter adequately - or any flake powder for that matter that has relatively large flakes. What happens in the flakes bridge in the small cavity (Lee Auto Disk, etc.) and light charges get thrown - read squibs. Also applies to 700X, Red Dot, etc.

I am finding it odd that Universal shows such large velocity variations in some instances, and would appreciate it if those using it in various calibers would report their results from powder position variances.

In .45 ACP, it was repeatable with bullet weights from light to heavy in two different lots of powder. Same in a few other cartridges, but of course I haven't tried them all.

As far as ability to detect "smokiness" I'm certainly not insensate, but I wonder if some shooters are either hypersensitive or shoot in rather stagnant, windless indoor ranges? I've done such with Unique indoors and really can't say I was bothered by it in loads producing pressures in the standard range. Hell, it was designed to work in shotshells at low pressures - handgun pressures of even mild cartridges like .380 and .45 ACP are much higher. Clean burning in .45 ACP is not an inaccurate term to describe it in standard velocity loads. My experience.

It seems to be plenty clean enough. At least for me.