22wcf

[wap41]

Just aquired a win highwall in 22wcf,trying to find some 40 -45 gr bullets Any ideas?Thanks

[Bullshop]

Just aquired a win highwall in 22wcf,trying to find some 40 -45 gr bullets Any ideas?Thanks

Bull Shop
BIC/BS

[Bret4207]

What you have is basicly the fore runner to the 22 Hornet. A cast boolit of around 45 gr and pinch of powder should work well. If you can access any older 40's and 50's reloading manuals you should find some info with powders till around. Phil Sharpes and Earl Naramore Handloading books have them too.

[Ross]

[QUOTE Phil Sharpes and Earl Naramore Handloading books have them too.[/QUOTE]
I do not think that my Naramore books have loading data, and the reference pages do not show the .22 WCF.
I don't find loads in Nonte, but a chart shows factory bullets from .2275" to .2285".
It was just a wee peek, and the data may be there in plain sight for all to see but me.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[Frank46]

Wap41, if you are interested I'll scrounge through my bullets and see if I have any hornet bullets. Think I may have some 40-45 gr bullets. Yours for the asking. Frank

[Bret4207]

I was talking about HORNET data for cast. It's the same case IIRC.

[Wayne Smith]

I don't know anything about it, but was surprised to see Midway currently carries new made ammo for it.

[Willbird]

Well the factory ammo would be great small game loads for 22 Hornet. I have a small bolt action euro looking single shot 22 wcf. when Dad got it there was excessive headspace, it locks up on the bolt handle and somebody had been shooting 22 hornet it we guessed. Neat little rifle with a single set trigger. Dad silver soldered in a piece of steel to get it back in headspace, I will follow this thread for some loading data.

Bill

[Bret4207]

Yes, the usual disclaimer should be added. Treat it as a low pressure Hornet, not a straight modern Hornet. I'd go for a 45 cast design at around 14-1700fps.

[StarMetal]

I don't know anything about it, but was surprised to see Midway currently carries new made ammo for it.

wayne

Are you sure you didn't see 22 wrf ammo? I couldn't find 22 wcf ammo at midway. Paste the page if you can.

Joe

[Wayne Smith]

Sorry, all, Joe is right.

[w30wcf]

wap41,

I have shot many .22 W.C.F. equivalent loads in my Winchester '43 Hornet rifle over the past several years. My favorite load is 3.3 grs. of 231 sparked by a CCI 500 small pistol primer under a 45 gr. .225" diameter cast bullet.
It goes across the chronograph at 1,540 f.p.s. On a calm day, it will group into 1 1/2" @ 100 yards.

Sorry, I don't know where you can get .228" diameter cast bullets but every once in awhile a Winchester mold for the 45 gr. .22 W.C.F. bullet appears on ebay. Also the discontinued Ideal / Lyman 228151 is the correct bullet.

One thing that could be tried is to acquire a .228 sizing die and some of the standard 45 gr. .224-.225" cast bullets designed for a gas check. Apply the gas check, lube and size the bullets in the .228" die. The larger gas check o.d. just might work in your .228" barrel.

A .06" polyethylene wad (maybe a .03" thick one would work as well) under a .225" cast bullet would likely work. It would keep the powder gases behind the bullet allowing the bullet to center itself in the barrel and shoot accurately. I don't know anyone that makes a wad that small but you could use a sharpened fired .22 Hornet / W.C.F. case to cut some from the polyethyelene material.

If you would be interested in trying this, I could make up 10 poly wads and send them to you with some .225" diameter 45 gr. cast bullets if you send me a PM.

w30wcf

[Bullshop]

Just a thought here that wont cost too much to try. The Lee Bator boolit is about the same length at 50gn as my NEI #2 at 45gn. It is designed to be heavy for length to be compatible with a 1/16" twist. It is length not weight that determans the needed twist rate. I think the balance point has something to do with it too but thats only my feeling. Anyway for less than $20.00 you can get a Lee/Bator from Mid South and try lapping a couple .000" out. I just happen to have a brand new RCBS .228" sizer available if needed, and also a used Star( I think). Something to hink about. I think a case full of the new Trail Boss powder should be about right.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Dan,

There is more then just the length of the bullet that determines the twist rate. Read this:

The program adjusts the spin rate required for very low and very high velocities, since the rate of spin generates different centrifugal forces on the bullet as the velocity changes. Once the bullet is free of the barrel, the velocity has little effect on required spin, but since velocity determines the bullet rotational speed imparted by the rifling twist, a higher twist rate would be required to stabilize a bullet fired at very low speed compared to firing the same bullet at a high speed. This is a neglected factor in conventional Greenhill calculations. Obviously, at zero forward velocity there is no rotation imparted, and at very low forward velocity, the same numbers of turns per unit of distance generates a very small number of revolutions per minute, but the usual method of calculating stable twist has no input factor for varying velocity.

Likewise, a bullet with the center of gravity shifted far to the rear will require much higher spin rate to maintain nose-forward attitude compared to a bullet with the CG shifted further forward. Most bullets have their center of gravity somewhat aft of the linear midpoint. If dropped from a height with the nose pointed down, they would land base first. A nose-heavy bullet, on the other hand, would land nose first. In flight it would require less spin to maintain nose-forward attitude. With the CG moved too far forward, the bullet would require little or no spin to strike nose first, but would follow the launch attitude over its trajectory path (that is, the nose would continue to point in the direction and angle at which it left the barrel, so that as the trajectory arc became larger with greater distances, the bullet would tend to fly at an angle to the direction its nose pointed, and would begin to tumble).

Joe

[felix]

Very good, Joe. Dan, remember why an arrow must have feathers to fly true. The arrow needs the drag at the rear. ... felix

[Bullshop]

Joe
Yes at times when on the ragged edge of stability I have been able to push it over the top by increasing forward velocity when working with a cartridge that will allow. I also mentioned what I felt about ballance which apparently you have proven for me, thank you. As far as using higher velocity to achieve stability with marginal twist I think in this case its not available from attainable velocity with the 22 wcf. I was pretty much referring to and trying to help with the case at hand, the 22 wcf.
BIC/BS

[felix]

Increasing speed is marginal at best to overcome a twist which is too slow. When ever things are that close with a known boolit, then it is far better to specify a 1/2 to 1 turn increase for the new barrel. This is done on the BR circuits when shoots are primarily in windy locations. Switch barrel syndrome. NOT for us. ... felix

[Bret4207]

You could also cast a straight WW boolit and try bumping it in the sizer for a little additional diameter. I think I would slug the bore before I started looking for custom dies.

[Wayne Smith]

NEI's #7 is a .228-60-GC. It looks to be `.690 long. Those exact CAD plots are really nice.

[floodgate]

Joe:

"This [velocity] is a neglected factor in conventional Greenhill calculations."

I think the reason velocity is left out of the Greenhill formula is that he was dealing with large-caliber rifle and artillery projectiles (or fairly blunt form) asssumed to be moving at the maximum velocity attainable with Black Powder; i.e. around 1500 fps.

That was a very fine, concise discussion of stability you put together; thanks!

floodgate