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Thread: Black MZ loads 50-70?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Black MZ loads 50-70?

    Anyone have load info using MZ in a 50-70? I have a ruger #3 action that has been rebarreled to 50-70govt. I have a bottle of Blk MZ and would like to shoot it up in my 50-70. I have 450grn govt bullet from the Lee mold. I emailed Allient and they merely replied they have no load data for this cartridge. Seems odd. If a guy typically loads say 65grns of FFG Goex, would a similar load of MZ be used? Any guidance would be helpful.

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
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    I've done some researching on the subject of Black-MZ and after learning a little, actually tried it in the 45 Colt. There was no load data available (as in your case with the 50-70) so I treated it like black powder in that I loaded it to get some compression when the bullet was seated. I would say you could probably see what volume of Black-MZ fills all the space in your case and gets some compression (say 1/16" to 1/8") from seating the bullet, and that would be a good starting point.

    Let us know how you do if you go ahead with Black-MZ in your rifle. It sounds like an interesting hybrid of old and new.

    Dave

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Well I finally stepped up to the plate and loaded 5 rounds for my 50-70. My starting load goes like this. CCI Mag Lrg rifle primer, 50 grains by weight of Blk MZ, Drop tube 28", 1 .060 veggie wad pushed down on powder and finally seated a 450grn Lee .512 sized govt bullet. Not a lot of compression here. I will give them a test flight and work my way up. I will post results. Wish me luck.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Shot my 50-70 roller with the above mentioned loads. I'm happy so far. First 3 shots at 50 yds were measured right at 1-1/2". Recoil was mild and barrel fouling was minimal. I ran 1 damp patch and 1 dry after each shot. Brass looks fine, no issues. I wish I had my Chrony with me. I cant say what the velocity was. So far so good. I will bump up the charge by 1 grn increments and see if I can shrink the groups a little. I did shoot 2 at 100. Held about 6" high and scored a hit on a 10" circle, not center but close.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the posting. I planned on trying some Black MZ in my 577/450 Martini-Henry. I have used the Black MZ stuff in just about everything you can think of. I see in some places where it's gotten a bad rap but I have actually shot it and Chrono tested it and have had real good luck with it. Seems to perform better with heavier boolits. Have been testing it in my Pedersoli flintlock trade gun lately even. When used over a 10 grain 3F holy black charge dumped in first and the Black MZ charge next, ignition was instantaneous. With no holy black and just 4f in the pan, ignition is just a tad delayed. I'm a newbie to flintlock shooting but these loads seem pretty useful to me. I'm going out tomorrow and give it some more testing for reliability. With all the baloney going around about this stuff, I just have to try these things myself. I know it hasn't rusted anything and it worked well in 11 ga. shotgun vs. doves. Some .45 Long Colt did OK with it. Hope someone starts making it again. Easy to clean and no buildup like with 777, good power, great uniformity. These are things I have seen so far. Lots of smoke but no sulphur smell (another obnoxious smell instead ). Will keep shooting until I run out I suppose. At $9.99 a pound, seems like a good deal.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Newtire, What powder charge are you going to try in your 577/450? I haven't loaded any more in my 50-70 but I think I may bump it up by a grain or two.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I am going to try 70 grains by volume with a filler of backer rod from Home Depot (Lowes or True Value sells it too that I know of). First cut 3/4" diameter to fill to bottom of neck and then 1/2" cut to within 1/4" of top of neck. I have only used a load of IMR 4227 that I got from Loaddata. It shot just fine. Later, settled on SR4759. H4198 didn't light too well. Sounded like a slow flintlock-whoosh boom.
    Last edited by Newtire; 10-13-2020 at 08:51 AM. Reason: Wrong size posted. Not 1" only 3/4".

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have no experience with that particular cartridge but I'm interested in how it goes. I did see that you also used it in a shotgun. I have a custom 12ga under hammer shotgun and never considered trying it in that one. I usually load 75-80 grns of FFG and 1 3/8 oz #6 shot for a turkey loading. May have to try it out and compare.

  9. #9
    Banned
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    Black horn 209 is all i ever use in both my muzzle loaders and my 45/70. Never have to wipe between rounds, very very accurate. I shoot paperpatch bullets in my 45/70 and use the same and sabots in my muzzle loader. If I wasn’t using black horn 209 powder i would use real black. In the 45/70 if I were to use real black in the 45/70 i would duplex the loads. This way i would not have to wipe the barrel of fouling.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    The reason I havent tried Blackhorn is the cost. We picked up the Black MZ for $10 a pound. Also, no fouling beyond the first shot, which slickens things up. Also Black MZ lights off with regular percussion caps. #209 ignition is not legal in Idaho during m/l season. I'll get around to trying Blackhorn one of these days.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    I haven't seen Black MZ in a couple years. I've been using BH 209 in .50-70 and other smaller cartridges. Yes its pricey, but Its available and works better than any other sub I've tried. So I don't mind paying the price. I also shoot a lot of black (Swiss, Old E, Goex).

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I found out that Black MZ didn’t work so well in my flintlock trade gun. I loaded 10 gr. 3F black as a kind of primer under the Black MZ but it was like a big delay in firing. Also found out that it really crudded up the brass so have been tossing it into water right after firing. That seems to have taken care of that problem. For the shotgun loads, I used equal parts shot & powder by volume up to 1-1/8 oz. loads. 1-1/4 oz. is really a thumper so am not too stoked on using that in equal parts. I don’t like beating up my stock that much or my shoulder for that matter. Would do that in my modern Pedersoli 10 ga. with some non-toxic for ducks if I ever got a chance to go duck hunting though. That old 11 ga. original might not be such a good idea to push that much I’m thinking.

    I hear they’re bringing back the Jim Shockey’s Gold (supposed to be similar to Black MZ but more uniform in grain size) so am going to give it a try as soon as you can buy components around here again.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check