Sensitivity of Black Powder to Static Discharge

[Red River Rick]

Hmm lit cigar, loose powder charge in the barrel of a just fired rifle, and it was static electricity....

That's what I was thinking as well...................static embers from a cigar!

[Don McDowell]

I think you nailed it Rick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thundermaker]

Methinks the gentleman may have been a bit facetious.

[sharps4590]

I see a lot of people don’t believe static electricity can set off a powder charge,,,I am one who has experienced it happen,, I was loading my second shot into my 1841 Mississippi rifle after swabbing the bore from the first shot to make sure there were no hot embers in the barrel ( safety first),,When I dropped the charge of 70 grains down the barrel I just reached for a mini ball and WHOOOOOSH!!! The charge in the barrel went off,,, lucky for me I always practice safety and wasn’t over the barrel when it went off,, the only harm done was burnt eyebrows and it blew the cherry off my cigar..The only thing I can think of is it was static electricity that set the charge off… Remember the most important safety with all firearms isn’t on the gun,,it’s in your head,,stay safe.

Surely this was posted "tongue in cheek" and in jest......surely...

[GregLaROCHE]

There was a video a few years ago where they tried to set off BP with a taser. They couldn’t do it.

[john.k]

medical evidence that 60mA causes cardiac arrest......so its likley tasers are designed to discharge below this level..................and define static discharge.....other day a tree in my field was blown to bits ,and the bits set on fire by a static discharge....so theres static discharges and static discharges.

[FrankJD]

I guess using my old Lyman powder measure loaded with black powder will kill me sooner than later .... been about 20 years later so far.

[bangerjim]

This is sure an OLDY-MOLDY thread from the past!!!!!!!!!

There are videos all over the web about people trying to light BP with static charges. No success I have seen.

Even using a "FORD COIL" (old ignition box) which gives a good continuous spark did not set it off. The tiny static that is generated from clothing and personal items is much less and should definitely not set off gun powders.

Before asking me for proof, please do an in-depth search for yourself on the net!!!!!!!!!!! I do not have the time.

There are certain physical instances where static can trigger explosions in grain silos and powdered material transfer lines. But that has to do with the U/LEL (upper/lower explosive limits) rating of the dusty material, temperature, and humidity. And anytime you suspend tiny dust particles of just about anything (mainly carbon-based) in lots of air, you can create a potentially explosive environment. A pile of gun powder sitting on a bench is NOT such an environment.

And a tree being struck by lightning is a totally different phenomenon.

[indian joe]

This is sure an OLDY-MOLDY thread from the past!!!!!!!!!

There are videos all over the web about people trying to light BP with static charges. No success I have seen.

Even using a "FORD COIL" (old ignition box) which gives a good continuous spark did not set it off. The tiny static that is generated from clothing and personal items is much less and should definitely not set off gun powders.

Before asking me for proof, please do an in-depth search for yourself on the net!!!!!!!!!!! I do not have the time.

There are certain physical instances where static can trigger explosions in grain silos and powdered material transfer lines. But that has to do with the U/LEL (upper/lower explosive limits) rating of the dusty material, temperature, and humidity. And anytime you suspend tiny dust particles of just about anything (mainly carbon-based) in lots of air, you can create a potentially explosive environment. A pile of gun powder sitting on a bench is NOT such an environment.

And a tree being struck by lightning is a totally different phenomenon.

also all of the grain elevators I ever saw had electrical wiring that could easily malfunction. Those kind of sparks have plenty of amperage attached

[sharps4590]

I'm not an EE but I was an electrician for 43 years. To generate heat from a static discharge such as off carpet, car seats, your wife's or your nose or the dog or cat, the time element has to be considered. Static is nearly always high voltage/low amperage. That generated in a home/shop situation is incomparable to a lightning strike. For the static discharges we encounter in home/shop they are not going to generate enough amperage OR be of a long enough duration to ignite anything. That home static can be a nuisance there is no doubt but dangerous? Not hardly. There's enough real things to be worried about as to concern ones self with that.

jim and joe....and others, could not be any more correct.

[Buzzard II]

I'll just keep using my old Belding & Mull. I'm happy with it and it's accurate!

[Brimstone]

I love how bent people can get over old snake oil stories.
Powder meters, flasks, reloading tools and dies since the 1890s
and not a drop of proof of a bench side black powder accident
yet articles from the 1890s onward mention blown up primers and
priming tools, mangled fingers...not an eye batted.

[super6]

Died from a static induced fire ball Making The black, Rip Todd Kolwilz, The letter is from his daughter.

[indian joe]

Died from a static induced fire ball Making The black, Rip Todd Kolwilz, The letter is from his daughter.

Sad but the letter tells us nothing except she lost her dad - do you have a police report or an investigation by a proper qualified expert ?
could be a hundred other sources for ignition - dust and an electric motor - sparks in the contacts of a switch - metal shards in the mill.etc
It takes a HOt spark and that is difficult to achieve with static but easy by many other means.

[Road_Clam]

I tried igniting a small amount of 4f using a static spark type bbq grille igniter . Nothing , nada , zip. Touch a bbq grill flame lighter and an instantanious POOF. Call me a fool , i have no concerns over electric induced static spark ignition of BP.

[indian joe]

I tried igniting a small amount of 4f using a static spark type bbq grille igniter . Nothing , nada , zip. Touch a bbq grill flame lighter and an instantanious POOF. Call me a fool ,

i have no concerns over spark ignition of BP.

ya might want to consider how you phrase that last bit ----spark ignition is how flintlocks work ---if the spark has enough heat attached - ignition will happen - most static dont have the required heat - I dont wanna run the experiment that figures out where that line is crossed or if it is .
We see harvester fires every year that destroy million dollar machines - can largely be avoided by dragging a static ground discharge device - i dont know the science of that but never went in a lupin or pea crop without and didnt have a fire.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.nswfarmers.org.au/NSWFA/...20catch%20fire.


Static electricity is often thought to be a cause. It’s not uncommon to feel the zap of a static charge from the machine when you’re out harvesting in dry and dusty conditions. However, Ben White says it’s not the risk many think it is.

“The static energy on a harvester ranges from about 10 millijoules [mJ] to 150mJ, whereas the static energy required to ignite a fire is about 500mJ in a continuous arc,” he says, adding that static electricity does attract dust to the machine, causing fuel to build up.

[GONRA]

GONRA believes it is Really Difficult to demo "static electricity"
black powder ignition safety phenomena.
From what I've read over many decades, you can dig up "tests"
to prove most anything you want on the subject -
one way or another.

With THAT in mind, here's an APPARENT
"black powder static discharge story"
from sane gun nuts - some I knew at the time:

Important article in a Corporate Fish & Game 1994 Newsletter:

"Joe Shooter" has dealt with black powder for 30 years w/o any problems.
He had a real accident in December 1993.
Just before the incident, he got a nice static shock touching the light switch place in a first floor bathroom.
He noted a wall hygrometer in his family room that read 8-10% humidity at the time.

He was wearing rubber sole shoes, cotton/rayon pants, cotton/synthetic shirt and heavy wool sweater.
Whilst standing on a rubber mat with a synthetic fiber topping, he unscrewed the lid
of the powder can that had perhaps 1/2 - 3/4 lb. MIXTURE of FFg and FFFg black powder.
It exploded with an orange ball of flame and a loud "whoosh".
He had 10 days first class Big City Burn Center care, maybe more PT, to get straightened out.
Note that his safety glasses helped, but he still had eye problems for a couple days.
(Looks like its best to wear GOGGLES folks!) Powder can just split at every seam.
There was enuf heat to mess up plastic in the vicinity...

He suggests, among other things:

1. Handle only minimum powder quantities.

2. Get a "dial hygrometer" and make sure relative humidity is > 30%.

3. Get a grounding strap from Radio Shack, wear it.

[indian joe]

https://www.nswfarmers.org.au/NSWFA/...20catch%20fire.


Static electricity is often thought to be a cause. It’s not uncommon to feel the zap of a static charge from the machine when you’re out harvesting in dry and dusty conditions. However, Ben White says it’s not the risk many think it is.

“The static energy on a harvester ranges from about 10 millijoules [mJ] to 150mJ, whereas the static energy required to ignite a fire is about 500mJ in a continuous arc,” he says, adding that static electricity does attract dust to the machine, causing fuel to build up.

I started driving these things in 1963 which of course counts for little in the face of a edicated engineer (Ben whatisname) - by some strange coincidence I never burnt one - musta been lucky eh?

[Road_Clam]

ya might want to consider how you phrase that last bit ----spark ignition is how flintlocks work ---if the spark has enough heat attached - ignition will happen - most static dont have the required heat - I dont wanna run the experiment that figures out where that line is crossed or if it is .
We see harvester fires every year that destroy million dollar machines - can largely be avoided by dragging a static ground discharge device - i dont know the science of that but never went in a lupin or pea crop without and didnt have a fire.

Good comment, edited my post for better clarification.