7.62x51 NATO (.308 WCF) in the Springfield M1A

[Mark-II]

G'day all. I'm a life long reloader and bullet caster but I'm brand new to this particular platform, being more of a single shot and lever gun guy up to this point (being a lefty and all).

So new, in fact, that I've not yet bought the rifle! I'm still doing research, reading all that I can, and seeing just what I'm about to get myself into with my first auto-loading center fire rifle.

This thread has been most enlightening, and I'm glad to see that some of my preferred powders are mentioned (H335 being one).

One thing I've not seen much info on, though, is whether or not H4895 is suitable for cast loads in this platform. Could someone enlighten me? I'm planning to load 150-170 grain GC projectiles.

One thing that threw me was the reference to .311 diameter. I guess it was just always accepted (as passed down from older members of the family) that sizing to .308 was for the 30cal stuff and sizing to .311 was for the .303 British. That now appears to be more dogmatic than factual, along with my long time use of #2 alloy and Ideal lube, so now I'm also looking for information on the groove diameter of the Norinco/Polytech M305 (without much success).

This is all a bit cart-before-the-horse, I know, but I won't be shooting again until spring, and I'd rather study/load in the winter or, in this case, at least get some small batches of development loads done up.

[Wayne S]

Check http://m14forum.com/ for your question on your M 305 ??
As to sizing, I size to the throat Dia. or .001 over not the bore Dia. because I want a tight fit in the throat to help guide the bullets into the rifling because as Bruce stated earlier you DO NOT want any resistance in chambering a round in an "auto loader.
As to powders, I'm new to cast in an M1A, but am going to leave the 10.0 of Unique, or 16.0 gn of 2400 to my Contender pistols and bolt action rifles.
In my last test with AA 223 and the 190-200 gn bullets, although the action was cycling, the cases had black smoke on the neck and shoulders, this is telling me that the pressures are low and that I can go up in the charge wt.
Not sure what a M-305 is or how it operates so do like most of us do, read, read, read, and then try something, try something else, and so on.

[Mark-II]

M-305 is the Norinco M1A clone that we get in Canada. It's something I've always imagined owning (ie a Garand-type battle rifle), but never could at the time, due to being poor and a kid (with a father who had not much time for anything but Winchester levers). Now with the gun registry gone, it's time for a fun gun, I figure.

That's the short story.

Throat diameter being slightly greater than the groove diameter, I'm guessing by your emphasis? I'll admit to having never slugged a bore or cast a chamber in my life, and I'm guessing that is going to have to change. Thanks for the link - I've chased a few google searches that ended up over there (and to here as well), but you've served to remind me that I've not used the forum search function there to find the info that google didn't have.

It's been a pleasant surprise to find out that you can indeed shoot cast in gas operated guns, despite the dogma to the contrary. I wouldn't even be considering this if I couldn't, with the price of commercial bullets being what they are.

[Wayne S]

Another range session with my M1A, Hoping to get the 311365 to group I ran a step test starting with 23.0 gn and ending at 27.0 gn of AA 2230 which I have about 15# of from a long time ago.
For comparison I also loaded the 311299 as this design shows better results that the 311365 in some of my T/C bbl's as well.
The two fliers on the 10 shot group with the 25.gn were shots # 3 & #7, These bullets were cast from a 5 cavity mold and only visually inspected. For some unknow reason 24.0 gn. didn't group ??
Both bullets were seated to within .015" of the riflings to decrease bullet jump ANDinsure resistance free chambering.-
My next outing will be with the Saeco 311, the RCBS 165 Sil. and the NOE 311-155

[Wayne S]

For some reason ? I'm having trouble posting pictures of my last range session
Another range session with my M1A, Hoping to get the 311365 to group I ran a step test starting with 23.0 gn and ending at 27.0 gn of AA 2230 which I have about 15# of from a long time ago.
For comparison I also loaded the 311299 as this design shows better results that the 311365 in some of my T/C bbl's as well. bottom line here is that the 311365 hasn't shown enough promise to continue with it in this weapon.
The two fliers on the 10 shot group with the 25.gn were shots # 3 & #7, These bullets were cast from a 5 cavity mold and only visually inspected. For some unknow reason 24.0 gn. didn't group ??
Both bullets were seated to within .015" of the riflings to decrease bullet jump ANDinsure resistance free chambering.-
My next outing will be with the Saeco 311, the RCBS 165 Sil. and the NOE 311-155

[Diegokid]

Well after being gone for over a year with other commitments I'm finally back home. This thread is the most helpful I've read on cast bullets in M-14 type rifles. Has anyone considered making a reloading manuel with this info?

All my casting up until now has been for pistol bullets. When buying a mold for this rifle what is the reccomendation of choice. Will be used for plinking and killing the deer that usually step into the field to eat my garden.

I didn't see anything on loading for the 18" barrel version. Has anyone tried this yet.

Jim

[Wayne S]

Giving your requirements, killing deer & plinking I would look at the NOE 311407 and the NOE 311-155FN. Both have flat noses,The 311-155 might be a little light for killing unless you can keep your shots within 3" at 100 yds **. I think both molds are available 2 th 5 cavity molds, the 4 & 5 cavity's will let you cast a lot of bullets at one time, which is helpful when it comes to "plinking"
Other molds to consider are the Lee 170 F, the Lee 180 & 200 R, and maybe the Saeco 311 & 305 as they drop bullets .310 to .312
I wouldn't think the 18" bbl would be a problem.
** This bullet is in the next batch of cast bullets I'm planning to test.

[Larry Gibson]

My 311041HP feeds perfectly in my M1As and several M14s I've tried it in. At 177 gr (fully dressed) it is the 30 cal hunting cast bullet I judge all others by. I push it at 2100 fps out of my 12" twist M1As and it is deadly on deer to 200 yards and effective for other "purposes" to 450 - 500 yards (goes subsonic shortly there after).

Larry Gibson

[10mmShooter]

Hi Everyone,

I've been procrastinating and finally pulled the trigger, and ordered my NOE 311 155g FN mold from Al Nelson at NOE molds should be here by Friday. I was happy to find a nice .311 diameter bullet that was specifically made to fit the short neck of .308. The bullet is only .887 inches in length.(.306 of it below the crimp grove fits perfectly in the .308 case neck). That gives me COAL of 2.606 inches.



I'm going to load it in my LC brass with CCI34 primers, I gonna use some of my stock IMR 4895 powder, with Hornady GCs and Thompsons Blue Angel lube

I'm curious why no one has posted results with the this powder which is go to powder for the M1a for M852. I realize its accuracy is probably reduced when using 60-70% reduced loads shooting 155g cast bullets(and that other powders may give better results), but still you would think someone would have mentioned it?

Based on what I can determine from Lyman's info 25grains should be in the 1750 fps and 30 grains on the high side should about 2000fps.

I'm hoping to find a middle ground around 1900 fps that reliably cycles my M1a .

Last concern is bullet seating, I currently us Redding Competition S-bushing dies for my 168SMK loads. The seating die is specifically designed for Sierra's Match king bullets, so what seating and expander dies you guys using for cast bullets a .311 diameter?? I know my Redding seat die is not going to work for a fat .311 cast bullet ?

......my usage is just plicking at no more than 200yds, I dont not need extreme accuracy but do need the rifle to cycle properly.

[Wayne S]

I suggest you read ALL of this, Bruce used 4895 with several cast bullets, not the heavies [195-210] I'm trying to get to shoot, not just hit the back stop but shoot sub 2 MOA 10 shot groups at 100 yds.
You should get a 30 Cal. M die, for, [a]reducing the amount of neck tension and to put a "bell" or flair in the case mouth to aid in seating and to help in not shaving lead off the the bullet when you seat..
ALL seating dies are cut for jacketed SP bullets, and will put a ring on some cast bullet noses. The less the neck tension the easier the bullet will seat, thus maybe only a slight mark.
Seat a bullet, mark the nose with a magic marker, put the round in a Mag. and release the bolt to chamber the round. Now, use the operating rod handle to eject the round, IF it extracts with no extra effort your seating depth is good, IF there is any extra effort, and the nose is marked from contacting the rifling's, then you should seat this bullet deeper.

[kweidner]

As if I haven't already said it 100 times, This is the best site on the net. I got a new to me Norinco M1a. My cousin just got it at a steal and I traded him a rangefinder for it. Loaded some lee 155 loaded over 29.5 grains h335 acww sized at .311 Felix lubed per recommendations here. First 5 shot group at 50 yards after setting sights could be covered with a quarter. No lead, functions flawless, accurate and cheap too. He was with me when I shot it yesterday. He just shook his head. Cast boolits for president!

[BulletFactory]

Never could get Felix to work. Wish I could, everybody seems to love it.

[ghost13]

If you want any info on loading for the M305 you should check out the http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/ site sub-forum Main Battle Rifles. If there is any information to be found regarding the M305, it is either on this site or it is referenced from this site.

[Splatter]

If you want any info on loading for the M305 you should check out the http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/ site sub-forum Main Battle Rifles. If there is any information to be found regarding the M305, it is either on this site or it is referenced from this site.

Except if you are interested in loading cast boolits, then all the info is right here.

[45 2.1]

If you want any info on loading for the M305 you should check out the http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/ site sub-forum Main Battle Rifles. If there is any information to be found regarding the M305, it is either on this site or it is referenced from this site.

It seems you have to be a Canuck to get on the forum......................... or answer the extra questions.

[Splatter]

or answer the extra questions.

Everyone has to answer the "extra" questions now. The board has had a big problem with spam and bogus accounts, when the sys-admin announced the new measures he was sorry; but unless someone suggested something better, he had to do it (and I guess no one did suggest anything better).
Seriously, the Spam was getting annoying.

[45 2.1]

Annoying or not, a whole lot of people have absolutely no idea what those answers are, especially when they're not Canadian or know enough history of the country. I guess with over 100,000 members it doesn't matter to them.

[robertbank]

Annoying or not, a whole lot of people have absolutely no idea what those answers are, especially when they're not Canadian or know enough history of the country. I guess with over 100,000 members it doesn't matter to them.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt you to step out of your county and learn something about your northern neighbours. We study American History in our schools . I suspect a good number of Americans couldn't find the capital of Canada with a flashlight and a compass.

Take Care

Bob

[45 2.1]

Maybe it wouldn't hurt you to step out of your county and learn something about your northern neighbours. Bob

I've met quite a few Canadians in this country. Snow birds who come here for 6 months a year to enjoy the warmth in our southern climes. They have NOT been very friendly people, in thought and deed, and often quite disruptive with trying to change everything like where they came from. Not the best representatives you folks could send.

[Wayne S]

THIS thread is about cast bullets in the M1A / M-14. you two take your little confrontation somewhere else.