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Thread: 7.62x51 NATO (.308 WCF) in the Springfield M1A

  1. #401
    Boolit Man Airborne Falcon's Avatar
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    This thread is proof of the magical mythical Internet ether ... Bruce lives-on.

    I've been following this thread for awhile now. Owning a couple of M1As I've just never been brave enough to try any CB loads in them ... but I'm giving it more serious thought.

    I used to hear of pieces of tissue paper being used rather than the Dacron ... always wondered about that.

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    ETA: Before someone types "where's the leather" ... I went through the 82nd Sniper School at Bragg in 79 and learned the beauty of those webbed slings over leather for practicality purposes. I do have one nice leather sling for the M21 build (darker wood, middle) but I just prefer the modern webbed slings over the leather. I'm not a big purest in that regard I suppose.

    But I am thinking about trying some CBs in the Springfield on the bottom.
    Last edited by Airborne Falcon; 03-20-2021 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Add a picture
    What you think about you do ... what you do, you become.

  2. #402
    Boolit Master

    fatelvis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne Falcon View Post
    This thread is proof of the magical mythical Internet ether ... Bruce lives-on.

    I've been following this thread for awhile now. Owning a couple of M1As I've just never been brave enough to try any CB loads in them ... but I'm giving it more serious thought.

    I used to hear of pieces of tissue paper being used rather than the Dacron ... always wondered about that.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG00016-20090919-0004-Copy.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	427.3 KB 
ID:	279878

    ETA: Before someone types "where's the leather" ... I went through the 82nd Sniper School at Bragg in 79 and learned the beauty of those webbed slings over leather for practicality purposes. I do have one nice leather sling for the M21 build (darker wood, middle) but I just prefer the modern webbed slings over the leather. I'm not a big purest in that regard I suppose.

    But I am thinking about trying some CBs in the Springfield on the bottom.
    I think the cloth type slings make for a better “loop”, grabbing better and preventing slippage.
    I shoot so that I can handload.

  3. #403
    Boolit Mold
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    I didn't read all of the threads but 28.5 of IMR 3031 functions my M1 308 perfectly and shoots well. It's also listed as an accuracy load in my old Lyman Cast Bullet book.

  4. #404
    Boolit Mold
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    This forum freaking rocks. Thanks for this just what I was looking for. Was thinking about casting for my m1a.

  5. #405
    Boolit Buddy Alan's Avatar
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    After getting married and having all my equipment in storage, I'm finally getting back into casting. I have a few .30 moulds, and have the SAECO #305 and RCBS 30-180F and lee c30-170f on order. I have a SOCOM-16 and standard M1-A, and am looking to add a can to both of them. That should add an interesting wrinkle to the function-and-accuracy quest.

    I have a good supply of CCI LR primers and IMR4895 and 3031, but the only CCI34's I have seen on the shelf were marked at $165/K. I'm also trying to get my hands on some H4895 due to it's ability (according to Hodgdon) to go as low as 60% loading density with no ignition problems. I think that would fit right in to what we are doing here.

    An additional criteria for me would be as large a meplat as I can get to shoot well, since I want this to be a hunting load for hogs. A 180ish gr slug at 1900-2100 should fill that order nicely.

    I will report back in detail once I have burned some powder.

    Alan

  6. #406
    Boolit Mold
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    I have read all of Bruce B's posts with great interest. I have a Springfield Armory M1A National Match made in 1992. I've been playing with some of Bruce's load data in the rifle and have not had anything to brag about until the other day. His best load of 35 grains of H4831 and the Lyman 311467 did not work for me. I substituted H4831SC at 35 grains and it is by far the worst thing I have shot in the rifle. 5 shot group measured 1.751 inches, lots of unburned powder. So much so I had dents in the case shoulders from the powder granules. Very dirty. Action cycled slow and 5th round did not eject but did lock back the bolt. I did not finish the work up loads. Clearly not a good powder for this rifle. Tried AA 5744 (one of my favorite powders) with the Lyman 311466. Best group with 1.226 inches at 50 yards. Looked great on the chronograph. SD 8 CV .39% ES 18 Av. Vel. 2100. I think about the same results Bruce got. In thread post I saw some questions about using Hodgdon's Varget and since it works so well in my 30-40 and 40-65 I tried some with the Lyman 311467. Started at 28.0 grains and went in 1 grain increments to 31 grains. Looks like I'm coming into a sweet spot at 31 grains. Next trip to the range I'll try 31 - 34 grains. Action cycles fine but cases are a bit dirty. COAL is 2.601 which in my rifle puts it .010 off the rifling. The chronograph was acting up so only have some average velocities at 1631fps with 30 grains and 1662 fps at 31 grains. 30 grains gave me a group of .955 with 4 rds. at .642 and 31 grains gave me a group of .758 with 4 rds. at .438. Tried to load target pictures but they fail to load. Snowing like crazy here in Maine right now but I hope to get out next week to continue the load work up.
    Last edited by HAL-3 Seawolf; 03-14-2023 at 04:25 PM.

  7. #407
    Boolit Mold
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    Purchased Hornady's Lock and Load OAL Gage Curved Model to make life easier in figuring COAL for this M1A. My figures for the 311466 did not change but for the 311467 there was a big difference. Bruce B said he used the same COAL for both since the bullet shape was the same so that is what I used. They absolutely are not. At least my mold is not. In my rifle the COAL for the 311467 to touch the rifling is 2.761. I took this knowledge and the 311467 out to the range with 22.0 - 23.5 grains of AA5744. COAL at 2.761 so .010 of the rifling. Only did 5 shot groups. 22.0 grains 1.089, 22.5 grains .728, 23.0 grains 1.085 and 23.5 grains opened up to 2.069. Action function was flawless, and the powder burned very clean. Range was 50 yards. Chrono reading for 22.5 grains were SD 10 CV .57% ES 28 Vel. 1745. I took a mic. to the 311467 as it dropped from the mold and discovered it is tapered. The widest point of the bullet nose measures .299 the first band measures .300, the second band .302, the remaining bands .310. The 311466 the bullet nose at its widest point measured .302 and all the bands measured .311. I'm casting #2 Alloy.
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    Last edited by HAL-3 Seawolf; 04-04-2023 at 03:19 PM.

  8. #408
    Boolit Mold
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    Good day at the range yesterday with my M1A NM. Lyman 311466 and 24.5 grains of AA5744. 10 rounds at 50 yards. 9 rounds at .675 and a flier 3 inches out at 10 o'clock. The fliers just come randomly. I wish I could figure it out.
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  9. #409
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    fliers just come randomly. Probably crud in the bore. Possibly a non-square base or bent nose from auto loading. That far off @ 50 it is not a 'minor' defect. Some claim it's a void in the cast, doubt it.
    Whatever!

  10. #410
    Boolit Mold
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    I do not weigh my bullets. They do get a good visual inspection when cast and again when sized and the gas check seated. My best guess is the bullet is damaged in the auto loading process. I've been using the same 10 round magazine for all my tests. Next trip to the range I'll bring a couple of 20 round mags and see it there is any difference. I've been staying with round nose and spire point bullets to try and limit loading damage. I made up some dummy rounds to pre test feeding and damage to the bullet noses is very minimal hand cycling. Flat nosed bullets in my rifle like the Lyman 31141 or RCBS 180 FN take a big ding on the nose of the bullet so I have not shot those but in my .30 Cal. bolt guns they are very accurate. Getting this rifle to shoot cast is challenging but I'm enjoying the journey.

  11. #411
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    As that is a louvrin type bullet, a distorted lube band could be causing throat leading easily.
    Whatever!

  12. #412
    Boolit Mold Vonllamawitz's Avatar
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    Bruce,

    What is the alloy that you used for these loads? What is WW?

  13. #413
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vonllamawitz View Post
    Bruce,

    What is the alloy that you used for these loads? What is WW?
    WW stands for wheel weights. They are the lead clip on counter weights that they balance your wheels at the tire shop with.
    I shoot so that I can handload.

  14. #414
    Boolit Buddy
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    Correct, WW stands for standard clip on wheel weights.

    Bruce unfortunately passed away a few years back, but has left a wonderful legacy with this topic, and many more on Cast Boolits, raise a glass in remembrance ��

  15. #415
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Lest we forget......

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    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 05-16-2023 at 06:05 PM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  16. #416
    Boolit Mold Vonllamawitz's Avatar
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    Thanks. Not finding much in the way of Wheel Weights these days.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check