Making that Bullet Collator

[azlester]

Just curious if anyone has ever tried using the APP case feeder main body on a Lee Loadmaster for case feeding instead of the Lee Universal set up...

[GWS]

Just curious if anyone has ever tried using the APP case feeder main body on a Lee Loadmaster for case feeding instead of the Lee Universal set up...

I don't have a Loadmaster to try, but looking at Lee's walk-around video of it, it appears the case loading is very similar to the APP......and the fact that you can use the Universal 4-way on the APP (an option on the instruction sheet) leads one to believe it would be possible.

I'm assuming you want to, so you can use the collator you just built on the Loadmaster? If so, maybe TylerR's quick change could work too. Let us know!

If you need parts, here's a handy list to help:

# PA2118 Case feed spring = https://leeprecision.com/case-feed-spring.html

# PA4342App case inserter assembly = https://leeprecision.com/app-case-in...-assembly.html

# PA4360 Molded tube supports = https://leeprecision.com/molded-tube-supports.html

# FT2457 Bolt = https://leeprecision.com/1-4-20-x-2-3-4-tap.html

# FT1994 Nuts (3 required) = https://leeprecision.com/1-4-20x7-16-7-32thic.html

# PA4384 Molded parts risers = https://leeprecision.com/molded-parts-risers.html

Tubes (1 of each) =
BF3489 https://leeprecision.com/lg-feed-tube.html
BF3490 https://leeprecision.com/sm-feed-tube-cut-17.html
PA4340 https://leeprecision.com/1-4x15-hvy-wall-tube.html
TR2458 https://leeprecision.com/oe-tubing-9-16-x15.html

X-Press shell holders = https://leeprecision.com/X-PRESS-She...ders-Category/

[kmitchl]

Any tricks to printing the 45 cal bullet feeder die? I have tried twice. Both times the wall thickness at the recess that lets the balls retract to allow bullets to pass is so thin it fails in the body threads. Second try I went from 20% fill to 95% fill. Maybe change the layer height to .12? Redesign for 3mm balls?

[azlester]

I don't have a Loadmaster to try, but looking at Lee's walk-around video of it, it appears the case loading is very similar to the APP......and the fact that you can use the Universal 4-way on the APP (an option on the instruction sheet) leads one to believe it would be possible.

I'm assuming you want to, so you can use the collator you just built on the Loadmaster? If so, maybe TylerR's quick change could work too. Let us know!

If you need parts, here's a handy list to help:

# PA2118 Case feed spring = https://leeprecision.com/case-feed-spring.html

# PA4342App case inserter assembly = https://leeprecision.com/app-case-in...-assembly.html

# PA4360 Molded tube supports = https://leeprecision.com/molded-tube-supports.html

# FT2457 Bolt = https://leeprecision.com/1-4-20-x-2-3-4-tap.html

# FT1994 Nuts (3 required) = https://leeprecision.com/1-4-20x7-16-7-32thic.html

# PA4384 Molded parts risers = https://leeprecision.com/molded-parts-risers.html

Tubes (1 of each) =
BF3489 https://leeprecision.com/lg-feed-tube.html
BF3490 https://leeprecision.com/sm-feed-tube-cut-17.html
PA4340 https://leeprecision.com/1-4x15-hvy-wall-tube.html
TR2458 https://leeprecision.com/oe-tubing-9-16-x15.html

X-Press shell holders = https://leeprecision.com/X-PRESS-She...ders-Category/

I have 3 of the Lee 4 tube set ups... Yes, I want to use the case collator to feed it. I printed up an extra APP Bracket main and already had the various case tubes printed. I tried the 45acp and the 9mm case inserts. They both kind of worked.. so I tried the bullet inserts and they seemed to work a bit better but still not 100%. I was using the short factory Lee case slider(latest version). There was still too much room from top of the slider to the case insert and the cases were getting tilted causing them to sometime drop fine and other times falling down on their sides. i am going to try some other ways and see what I can get to work.

[GWS]

I have 3 of the Lee 4 tube set ups... Yes, I want to use the case collator to feed it. I printed up an extra APP Bracket main and already had the various case tubes printed. I tried the 45acp and the 9mm case inserts. They both kind of worked.. so I tried the bullet inserts and they seemed to work a bit better but still not 100%. I was using the short factory Lee case slider(latest version). There was still too much room from top of the slider to the case insert and the cases were getting tilted causing them to sometime drop fine and other times falling down on their sides. i am going to try some other ways and see what I can get to work.

The case slider has to be as tall as possible, but not taller than a dropped case.....

Not this:


This:


Too low and it is more likely to drop crooked.

Also print TylerR's lower slide part with the tongue at the bottom to push cases from the base.

This part:



Bullets? Ask TylerR, I don't size boolits on the APP....

[GWS]

Any tricks to printing the 45 cal bullet feeder die? I have tried twice. Both times the wall thickness at the recess that lets the balls retract to allow bullets to pass is so thin it fails in the body threads. Second try I went from 20% fill to 95% fill. Maybe change the layer height to .12? Redesign for 3mm balls?

For sure change the layer height to .12. My fill is usually about 18% and they work great. TylerR may have more insights.....

[TylerR]

Any tricks to printing the 45 cal bullet feeder die? I have tried twice. Both times the wall thickness at the recess that lets the balls retract to allow bullets to pass is so thin it fails in the body threads. Second try I went from 20% fill to 95% fill. Maybe change the layer height to .12? Redesign for 3mm balls?

This is an issue caused by your slicer. I have never run in to this issue with Cura default settings. With some of the other slicers you have to look in to the "thin wall" settings.

[azlester]

well so far the pistol set up on the Loadmaster seems to be working well... the rifle not so much. I added 15mm in Cura to the length of the brass insert on the 300 blk insert and everything worked great up until the last 2 pieces... then they both came out. Not perfect but if that's the only problem I have then I am considering it a win! Printing up the 223 insert and we will see how well that works in a couple of hours.
I am using the factory slider with Tyler's quick change set up and the APP offset with the factory tube.

I tried uploading a picture 10 time and it failed every one of them...

[GWS]

......................I added 15mm in Cura to the length of the brass insert on the 300 blk insert and everything worked great up until the last 2 pieces... then they both came out.

That also happened to me with rifle .....last two or two at a time somewhere....

I fixed it with a shaped profile.....instead of a plain cutout. Such is better at keeping the next one up.....in the tube where it belongs.

Printing up the 223 insert and we will see how well that works in a couple of hours.
I am using the factory slider with Tyler's quick change set up and the APP offset with the factory tube.

I tried uploading a picture 10 time and it failed every one of them...

The factory slider base only works well for a few calibers...the rest tip over. Print TylerR's which pushes from the bottom where it should.

The picture above shows the two .223's we've tried.....the right one prevents the two at a time.....the other one allows sideways ejections sometimes.

As for pictures on this forum, brackets surrounding IMG before the host url and brackets surrounding /IMG after the host url is how I do it. My picture host is postimage.com. (no spaces allowed)

[GWS]

Below, my experience with the cutout.


Below, my experience with the shaped one.

[azlester]

The current 223 insert has a shaped opening and it is still doing it for me... like I said no real biggie. The 300 blackout doesn't have much of a shaped neck to begin with.

[GWS]

Let see a video......are you using a tall enough slide?

[TylerR]

That also happened to me with rifle .....last two or two at a time somewhere....

I fixed it with a shaped profile.....instead of a plain cutout. Such is better at keeping the next one up.....in the tube where it belongs.

The factory slider base only works well for a few calibers...the rest tip over. Print TylerR's which pushes from the bottom where it should.

The picture above shows the two .223's we've tried.....the right one prevents the two at a time.....the other one allows sideways ejections sometimes.

As for pictures on this forum, brackets surrounding IMG before the host url and brackets surrounding /IMG after the host url is how I do it. My picture host is postimage.com. (no spaces allowed)

Your idea to shape the cutout was a huge improvement to the design.

[GWS]

Your idea to shape the cutout was a huge improvement to the design.

Additionally that type of profile carries even a square shape, as on straight-wall pistol farther out to push only forward.....but just as critical, the height of the down tube has to be very close to the slide pusher, so there's no out of control dropping. I'll try to take a vertical picture of the profile difference as that's where it made the biggest difference.

Your quick-change drop system made it possible. Beats the heck out of Lee's original ideas. What I did was limited to what I shoot....300 blackout wasn't one of them.....so if it's shaped you must of done that. Should we do more of the profiles, or is what we did enough?

[TylerR]

Additionally that type of profile carries even a square shape, as on straight-wall pistol farther out to push only forward.....but just as critical, the height of the down tube has to be very close to the slide pusher, so there's no out of control dropping. I'll try to take a vertical picture of the profile difference as that's where it made the biggest difference.

Your quick-change drop system made it possible. Beats the heck out of Lee's original ideas. What I did was limited to what I shoot....300 blackout wasn't one of them.....so if it's shaped you must of done that. Should we do more of the profiles, or is what we did enough?

I used your concept and shaped the rest of them. With the 300BO there really is not much of a cutout to begin with. It is only 2mm long, so nothing to really shape. I can take a second look at it though when I get a chance.

[GWS]

I used your concept and shaped the rest of them. With the 300BO there really is not much of a cutout to begin with. It is only 2mm long, so nothing to really shape. I can take a second look at it though when I get a chance.

Great! Don't know what azlester has then. But here's the picture promised that shows the end profiles, and one to show how close I have the .223 to the top of the slide. Maybe he can see if his is different to that one that works.





The gnawed surface on the downtube was a flaw in printing.... or maybe I have rats.

[azlester]

I shot a video for you this morning... i apologize up front because it is almost the worst video I ever shot! lol
I have a few of those flaws myself... but I guess I am lucky as they aren't anyplace the matters except for appearance. I am a lot more concerned with function and a lot less about how it looks. LOL
My internet connection out here in the middle of no where Mississippi really sucks... takes a long time to upload videos. As soon as it is done I will post a link to it.

[azlester]

Well here it is....https://youtu.be/fFJIObhYpCs

[TylerR]

Well here it is....https://youtu.be/fFJIObhYpCs

I can answer the question about the red tab that makes contact with the rail and causes friction. You actually need some friction so that the slide does not move completely freely. If it has no resistance, the spring that pushes it back will not properly open up the jaws fully. That is why Lee has that red tab there to make contact with the rail and slow the slide down slightly. Here is the problem. I have recently purchased another app press, as well as some spare rails, and the width of the rail on these new ones is thinner then the original. So the red tab makes no contact on the rail and it slides too freely. To address that I added the little nub that pushes on the tab forcing it to make more contact. That nub can now be customized to get the perfect amount of tension. If it is too much tension then you can file down 1/2mm or so at a time until you get just the right amount.

So the short answer is grab a small file and take off just a tiny bit of the nub, reassemble it and test again. rinse and repeat until you have what you need. If Lee had more consistency in the manufacturing of that rail none of this would be necessary.

[azlester]

I can answer the question about the red tab that makes contact with the rail and causes friction. You actually need some friction so that the slide does not move completely freely. If it has no resistance, the spring that pushes it back will not properly open up the jaws fully. That is why Lee has that red tab there to make contact with the rail and slow the slide down slightly. Here is the problem. I have recently purchased another app press, as well as some spare rails, and the width of the rail on these new ones is thinner then the original. So the red tab makes no contact on the rail and it slides too freely. To address that I added the little nub that pushes on the tab forcing it to make more contact. That nub can now be customized to get the perfect amount of tension. If it is too much tension then you can file down 1/2mm or so at a time until you get just the right amount.

So the short answer is grab a small file and take off just a tiny bit of the nub, reassemble it and test again. rinse and repeat until you have what you need. If Lee had more consistency in the manufacturing of that rail none of this would be necessary.

Thanks. I filed a little and it works great now. I have both an APP and an ACP each one is just tad different. But both have your slider on it.
Any suggestions on the Loadmaster set up?
Thank you again