Making that Bullet Collator

[MSUICEMAN]

I finished mine last week. I figure not bad for never using a 3D printer before 12/26/21. The only piece I had to reprint was the drop tube for the proximity switch. I have my collator on the right side so the bullet window was facing away from me. I figured out how to print a mirror image & all better now except the #10 on the tube is also reversed now(I can live with that). I did a trial run of 400 rounds. Not ONE failure or jam of any kind. I have to say thank you again to Tyler & all who have contributed here, making it possible for the average Joe to build this. Try not to laugh at the 3D printed brass feeder in the pic. It actually works really well.
Attachment 294780

What piping did you use to face mount it? I assume with a threaded flange?

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[Sig]

What piping did you use to face mount it? I assume with a threaded flange?

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Yes a threaded flange 3/4" black plumbing pipe. I got a 2' section at the H. depot. It comes threaded on both ends. I love the fact that I can swivel the collator off to the side to fill the powder hopper & such. I still can't believe how well it works.

[TylerR]

So I wired up all of my components (roughly, outside of the box) today to test the function and I’m having a problem with my proximity sensor that I’m hopeful I could get some help with.

The motor turns on when I flip the switch, the led light on the switch lights up, the knob on the speed controller modulates the speed, and the led on the back of the proximity sensor lights up when nothing is close to it, and the sensor led turns off when I place a case close to it.

My problem: while the proximity sensor appears to be sensing cartridges as evidenced by the led turning on/off, the motor stays running regardless of the status of proximity sensor.

I’m using these components:
1. Speed controller https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2. Proximity sensor https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3. Relay https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
4. Switch https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2?ie=UTF8&th=1

I've gone over the wiring several times to see where I made a mistake and can’t get the sensor to work,

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Most common issue is with the proximity sensor wire colors. The Brown wire is positive (V+). The Blue wire is negative (ground), and the Black wire is the signal wire that goes to the Relay in Pin 1. I think its common to mix up the blue and black wires. I did it once.

[GWS]

Most common issue is with the proximity sensor wire colors. The Brown wire is positive (V+). The Blue wire is negative (ground), and the Black wire is the signal wire that goes to the Relay in Pin 1. I think its common to mix up the blue and black wires. I did it once.

That's right, I remember........I had those leads reversed, Black from the Sensor, NOT blue goes to the negative "IN" on the Relay. The blue goes to the common negative.....which seems wrong....but it isn't. I mean black in all other cases goes to negative ground so it's easy to get that wrong on the sensor.

[45acp]

I'll let TylerR answer most of your questions as you will most likely use his parts, but on #3, the sensor you bought is "NO" which means the sensor is Normally Open (circuit off) and turns on only when tripped. That one is Not what you want.

You want a sensor that is NC. IOW's with the separate powder switch turn on, the motor runs (circuit closed) all the time, until it senses a bullet or case stopped in front of it...which opens the circuit, turning the motor off.

I cut off my sensor leads to fit, then solder them or wire nut them to the other wiring as in Tyler's schematic.

Well....since the speed control you already bought is beefier than the combo unit you mentioned in#3, I should tell you that I used the beefy one you already have, and bought a simple rocker on/off switch to go with it.....therefore maybe it's be simpler if you print the new box I made to fit that same speed control board. Fact is, I just got around to sending the stl files to TylerR Yesterday. Maybe he's posted the three files to the "Contributors" section already......(its made to mount under the collator as shown below)

Here's a picture of those parts mounted under my case collator:

Hi.
May i be so rude to ask for stl for this box? I can´t see it in the contributors folder, or is the file located somewhere else?

[MSUICEMAN]

That happened to me once too, and I thought I had a bad sensor. Turned out I had the Relay wired wrong. A picture might help, but I'd bet you need to change leads on the relay.

In one wiring schema I have it seems to show two legs of the relay to be bonded together, is that correct?

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[TylerR]

Hi.
May i be so rude to ask for stl for this box? I can´t see it in the contributors folder, or is the file located somewhere else?

That's my bad. GWS gave it to me days ago. just been busy. uploading it now. it will be in the GWS file.

[TylerR]

In one wiring schema I have it seems to show two legs of the relay to be bonded together, is that correct?

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Pins 3 and 4 establish continuity for the V+ going from the speed controller out to the motor. Is that what you mean?

Also want to make sure, you are looking at my latest diagram. Did make some changes a month or so ago.

[GWS]

On December 13 sierra1911 post the following observation:

I noticed a difference between the photocell and proximity wiring diagrams in version bf_v1.4.x of the manual.

The photocell diagram places the speed controller immediately after the power supply and power switch so that the speed controller remains powered whenever the power switch is on. The proximity diagram places the speed controller after the sensor relay so that the speed controller is cycled on and off with the motor.

Is the difference intentional/needed? Would it be better to change the proximity diagram, swapping the speed controller and relay so that the speed controller remains powered whenever the power switch is on instead of being cycled on and off with the motor?

While both arrangements function, the proximity diagram appears to subject the electronics of the speed controller to thousands of unnecessary on/off cycles.

Dale

TylerR responded with the following and posted an updated schematic:

That is a very interesting observation, and I agree with your assessment. I am not sure how much of an issue it is in practicality, but I agree it should be changed. I will take a look at it when I get a chance.

Heres both schematics: New one on the left ..... old one on the right......and yes the old one tied two leads together on the relay. I'm sure TylerR tried the new one and it worked too. To be honest I haven't taken the time to change the wiring on mine (wired the old way) since it works fine. Maybe I should?



For me (slower than TylerR) I needed another way of illustrating to keep me from wiring it wrong....below is the OLD way. But yes the two leads on that relay are together.....see the wire on the far left. This works, but.......

Update: I just replaced the old diagram with the new one with the circuit changes TylerR came up with so anyone using my box like gentleman called 45acp would have a good crutch to keep the thinking straight.....is can be confusing for sure.

[MSUICEMAN]

damned if i can find the source, but somewhere i found a wiring diagram (not particularly well done, but good enough), and it appears to show that out (+) and in (+) are wired together, as well as out (+) going to the on/off switch (as well as brown wire to proximity sensor via wire nut).

maybe its wrong. i'm not a great circuit person. do you know of a good/proper wiring diagram for a proximity switch configuration? maybe its there and I just missed it?

didn't see the above reply... i guess I was using an old "method" or wiring diagram. I now see the updated one. I will wire per that one.

Thanks everyone for the help on this!

Steve

Steve

[TylerR]

On December 13 sierra1911 post the following observation:

TylerR responded with the following and posted an updated schematic:

Heres both schematics: New one on the left ..... old one on the right......and yes the old one tied two leads together on the relay. I'm sure TylerR tried the new one and it worked too. To be honest I haven't taken the time to change the wiring on mine (wired the old way) since it works fine. Maybe I should?

For me (slower than TylerR) I needed another way of illustrating to keep me from wiring it wrong....but this is the OLD way. But yes the two leads on that relay are together.....see the wire on the far left. This works, but.......

You might be better off using the NEW schematic ABOVE. All confusing I know.

I would like to add, these schematics are just our interpretations on how to wire it. What is most important is understanding how a prox sensor works, and how a relay works, etc.... Without that knowledge its a bit like poking at it with a sharp stick. I had to educate myself on relays, because while I had a basic concept, I did not have practical knowledge.

[TylerR]

damned if i can find the source, but somewhere i found a wiring diagram (not particularly well done, but good enough), and it appears to show that out (+) and in (+) are wired together, as well as out (+) going to the on/off switch (as well as brown wire to proximity sensor via wire nut).

maybe its wrong. i'm not a great circuit person. do you know of a good/proper wiring diagram for a proximity switch configuration? maybe its there and I just missed it?

Steve

Yes mine, its in the project.

https://github.com/BF556/Feeder/blob...0Schematic.png

[TylerR]

Wanted to clarify. I am not a wiring schematic professional. I did not spend time making clear that when two wires cross at a right angle, they are not tied together. In this image, the two red wires indicated in the blue boxes are not tied together. They are just crossing in the diagram.

[MSUICEMAN]

Wanted to clarify. I am not a wiring schematic professional. I did not spend time making clear that when two wires cross at a right angle, they are not tied together. In this image, the two red wires indicated in the blue boxes are not tied together. They are just crossing in the diagram.

Attachment 294862

your schematic is fine. i was working on the "old" one found in the bottom of the one reply above. yours is pretty darn clear. i hopefully should be able to get it done tonight.

[MSUICEMAN]

in your diagram you have two + outs for the relay, is that supposed to be one (+) and one negative or are two wires going to the + out pin?

[TylerR]

in your diagram you have two + outs for the relay, is that supposed to be one (+) and one negative or are two wires going to the + out pin?

Its labled + and - on the relay, which I have in the diagram. But it is really just a switch between two 12v+ wires. That circuit closes when the circuit on pins one and two close. Which then creates continuity for the 12v+ to flow to the motor.

It might be good to study up on how relays work. This is a good video.

[TylerR]

And yet another version of the diagram, made by GWS to show wire crossovers.

[GWS]

The relay image you just posted is for the old configuration where the leads on the relay are tied together.

[TylerR]

The relay image you just posted is for the old configuration where the leads on the relay are tied together.

Yes, you are right. removing. sorry for the confusion.

also, I changed the #3 pin on your new diagram back to a red -. Since it shows - on the actual relay. Even though its a +12v out. Confusing I know, but it is what it is.

Here is the updated version of the relay:

[GWS]

Its labled + and - on the relay, which I have in the diagram. But it is really just a switch between two 12v+ wires. That circuit closes when the circuit on pins one and two close. Which then creates continuity for the 12v+ to flow to the motor.
It might be good to study up on how relays work. This is a good video.

Super good video......even I can see clearly now! I heard of relays, had not a clue of what they were for......until TylerR fixed my proximity circuit with it. I burned out 2 speed control circuits thinking they were just the result of cheap Chinese products. I wonder what else I burned up the same way on other projects?