Making that Bullet Collator

[nhyrum]

Perfect. That painted the picture for me. Which spring adapter are you using, and what size spring?

#10 adapter and 10mm Id, 12mm od spring

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[TylerR]

#10 adapter and 10mm Id, 12mm od spring

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

OK. My guess is you are using the standard 10mm adapter? Which is offset. Print out the "Spring_Adapter_10_Flush.stl" and give it a try. Your issue should be resolved.

[sierra1911]

Sierra1911: Guess I don't understand the need for more complexity. With what we do....with a single prox sensor.....if there's no stack the motor runs....when the stack fills the motor stops.....when the stack drops one or more the motor runs to fill it up again....then it stops when the sensor detects a bullet that high in the stack. TylerR noticed that a relay is needed to handle the amps involved in the 12V circuit using a motor using too many amps for the low amp sensor.

What does the second sensor accomplish more, and/or better in your mind? I never saw the post you are referring to....sorry.

It greatly reduces the number of start/stop cycles on the motor. For example when I'm loading 9 mm, my Dillon casefeeder motor starts and stops for each round loaded; 4,000 rounds equals 4,000 cycles on the motor. Also, I have to listen to the almost constant noise of cases rattling in the feeder.

While my Dillon casefeeder motor has been running since the late '90s and has fed many tens of thousands of cases, I was thinking that for a few dollars of electronic parts (an extra sensor and a capacitor) the silence between filling tubes might be nice. Maybe even build extras for my Dillon case feeders as the electronic parts often come in multiples from Amazon.

Still haven't found the original post. It was either here, on the Brian Enos forum or on Dillons (now deleted?) forum.

Splurged and ordered a Prusa i3 MK3S+ last week on their black Friday sale but it won't arrive until next month.

[TylerR]

It greatly reduces the number of start/stop cycles on the motor. For example when I'm loading 9 mm, my Dillon casefeeder motor starts and stops for each round loaded; 4,000 rounds equals 4,000 cycles on the motor. Also, I have to listen to the almost constant noise of cases rattling in the feeder.

While my Dillon casefeeder motor has been running since the late '90s and has fed many tens of thousands of cases, I was thinking that for a few dollars of electronic parts (an extra sensor and a capacitor) the silence between filling tubes might be nice. Maybe even build extras for my Dillon case feeders as the electronic parts often come in multiples from Amazon.

Still haven't found the original post. It was either here, on the Brian Enos forum or on Dillons (now deleted?) forum.

Splurged and ordered a Prusa i3 MK3S+ last week on their black Friday sale but it won't arrive until next month.

I definitely get the concept, and it makes total sense. I have not tried to wire up anything like that though, so not much help to you there. If you do get something working I would love to see how you set it up.

Interestingly my collator design would allow you to easily do this, using both the standard and collator mounted drop tubes.

[sierra1911]

I definitely get the concept, and it makes total sense. I have not tried to wire up anything like that though, so not much help to you there. If you do get something working I would love to see how you set it up.

Interestingly my collator design would allow you to easily do this, using both the standard and collator mounted drop tubes.

I'll definitely share, but it'll be a while since it'll be over a month until I receive my printer. The concept is to use the existing wiring for the lower sensor and add a wire from the output of the relay, thru the upper sensor, to the input of the relay, thus latching it on. When the bottom sensor turns on the relay, the relay output then provides power thru the upper sensor back to its own input, holding it on after the lower sensor has turned off. When the upper sensor turns off, it interrupts the power thru the latching wire and as the bottom sensor is also off, the relay turns off the motor. A capacitor across the upper sensor provides power to the input of the relay during the brief periods when a case/bullet momentarily interrupts the upper sensor on its way to the bottom of the drop tube. All simple except playing with the capacitance value to ensure that the latch stays on but doesn't run too long after the drop tube is full.

Thank you for all of your and other's endless work on this project.

[TylerR]

I'll definitely share, but it'll be a while since it'll be over a month until I receive my printer. The concept is to use the existing wiring for the lower sensor and add a wire from the output of the relay, thru the upper sensor, to the input of the relay, thus latching it on. When the bottom sensor turns on the relay, the relay output then provides power thru the upper sensor back to its own input, holding it on after the lower sensor has turned off. When the upper sensor turns off, it interrupts the power thru the latching wire and as the bottom sensor is also off, the relay turns off the motor. A capacitor across the upper sensor provides power to the input of the relay during the brief periods when a case/bullet momentarily interrupts the upper sensor on its way to the bottom of the drop tube. All simple except playing with the capacitance value to ensure that the latch stays on but doesn't run too long after the drop tube is full.

Thank you for all of your and other's endless work on this project.

That's a great explanation of the concept, thanks. Do you know what sensor the person who set this up originally was using? I wonder if the capacitor is still required if using the proximity sensor.

[GWS]

Interesting stuff......I wonder how many times the 3d printer's stepper motors go on and off......

At my age, I doubt the collator motors will die before I can't load anymore.....but you young guys might need such a thing.

Good luck with your mission....

[sierra1911]

That's a great explanation of the concept, thanks. Do you know what sensor the person who set this up originally was using? I wonder if the capacitor is still required if using the proximity sensor.

The person who originally set this up was using photocell sensors and a separate relay for the latching since the photocell modules were 5 volt instead of 12 volt. He was also using a voltage regulator to drop the 12 volt power supply to 5 volts for the control circuitry:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...207F2WL2&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._6?smid=&psc=1

If the proximity sensors are slower to respond to the presence of a case/bullet than the time it takes a case/bullet to fall past the upper sensor, a capacitor wouldn't be needed.

GWS: Thinking that the stepper motors are designed for the start/stop stuff, normal DC motors not so much. Don't know how long the motors from Amazon will last compared to the ones Dillon uses. I personally am most interested in the quiet between tube fills.

[GWS]

Every collator I have ever used is quiet between tube fills .... even my Hornady AC powered one, once I modified it with an AC Proximity switch. Except for the first little Ammo Mike one, my 3D printed collators all use Dayton 12V gear motors.

Seems to me that the enemy to DC motors is heat. In this application, with TylerR's clutch design.....they run really cool.....no matter how much they start and stop.

[TylerR]

If the proximity sensors are slower to respond to the presence of a case/bullet than the time it takes a case/bullet to fall past the upper sensor, a capacitor wouldn't be needed.

I think they may be, but that is a guess. Having the capacitor there is probably the best method. I will admit that I am curious about setting one up, although I have 3 collators, and it would require 3 more prox sensors, so I will most likely won't.
Also, I am not a big fan of having the spring full of bullets. If you have any slack in the spring it can cause issues. Cases are not as big of an issue.

[GWS]

I noticed on the first the AC prox switch, used with my Hornady factory AC motor, that it lit up for a fraction of a second each time a bullet fell, but it was sooo brief, and didn't effect anything....that I quit noticing. I'll have to look again.....on the newer ones. I'm not an electronic whiz, so I'll keep it simple unless you guys show me where it's important.......like TylerR admittedly did with the relay.

I've about got the final collator set up and the smaller dedicated case collator, I once used for rifle, set up on my Pro 2000 over my homemade case feeder for pistol....so I hope I'm about done with making collators......4 printed and one modified Hornady should be a big plenty. Bench is getting crowded. When I get the mess cleaned up I'll add some pictures.

I converted the #14 spring/downtube adaptor to my H.M. case feeder which required a slip-on over a 9/16" tube. Should be about done.....let you know how it works.....

[M500]

TylerR, would it be a lot of trouble to post a file for a spring adaptor #7 flush? If so I can print one at 100% infill and take it to my lathe. Just needing to connect to a #6 collator mount sensor body. Wouldn't need to be full diameter on the entrance. Thanks, M500.

[TylerR]

TylerR, would it be a lot of trouble to post a file for a spring adaptor #7 flush? If so I can print one at 100% infill and take it to my lathe. Just needing to connect to a #6 collator mount sensor body. Wouldn't need to be full diameter on the entrance. Thanks, M500.

I am willing to modify whatever you want, but I am not sure what you are trying to do exactly. Any reason why the #8 would not work? what size spring are you using? What modification are you wanting to do with the lathe?

[M500]

Attachment 293044

The #8 would probably work, but I screwed up by not ordering that spring. I have a 1x9mm spring on the way for the the #7 adapter though. As you can see in the picture, the #7 adapter wont fit in the sensor body. If I printed it solid I could shorten it to fit. Plan is to use with .224 bullet die. Assumed the #7 would be the way to go for vmax style bullets.

[TylerR]

Attachment 293044

The #8 would probably work, but I screwed up by not ordering that spring. I have a 1x9mm spring on the way for the the #7 adapter though. As you can see in the picture, the #7 adapter wont fit in the sensor body. If I printed it solid I could shorten it to fit. Plan is to use with .224 bullet die. Assumed the #7 would be the way to go for vmax style bullets.

OK I got ya now. That spring would probably be perfectly fine with the #8 Flush adapter, but I will go ahead and make the #7. I may just do the 6 and 9 as well while I am at it.

[M500]

That would be awesome. Thank you.

[TylerR]

That would be awesome. Thank you.

Here it is.

https://github.com/BF556/Feeder/blob..._Adapter_7.stl

I changed the naming conventions. The offset ones now have the _Offset suffix. No more Flush.

[GWS]

Here it is.

https://github.com/BF556/Feeder/blob..._Adapter_7.stl

I changed the naming conventions. The offset one now have the _Offset suffix. No more Flush.

So am I the only one confused? Flush.....Offset is referring to flush to what.....offset to what?

[TylerR]

So am I the only one confused? Flush.....Offset is referring to flush to what.....offset to what?

Flush is not going to be used anymore so ignore that. Offset refers to the drop hole being offset to the center axis. The offset adapters were designed a while back to make the feeding of small, shorter bullets more reliable.

This should help.

[sierra1911]

I think they may be, but that is a guess. Having the capacitor there is probably the best method. I will admit that I am curious about setting one up, although I have 3 collators, and it would require 3 more prox sensors, so I will most likely won't.
Also, I am not a big fan of having the spring full of bullets. If you have any slack in the spring it can cause issues. Cases are not as big of an issue.

Good point on not filling the spring with bullets. My first use for the collator will be my Lee APP so I'll attempt sensors at the top and bottom of the rigid tube.

My thought is to install jacks (probably small stereo audio jacks) in the control box for the sensors. That way I'll have the flexibility of using one or two sensors depending on the application - feeding cases or boolits to the Lee APP or boolits to my 650 or 1050.

When using a single sensor (in either the top or bottom location) that sensor would be plugged in per the current wiring diagram. When using two sensors, the bottom one would be plugged in per the existing wiring diagram and the top one into the latching wire. When the latching sensor is not plugged in, the latching wire would remain open and have no effect on the feeder's operation.

If you installed jacks for second sensors in your control boxes, you wouldn't have to buy 3 new sensors, just one to optionally install at the top of the drop tube string for some applications.

But I'm getting way ahead of myself here. I need to build a collator and then get a two-sensor system working and to do that I need a printer and its kit doesn't ship from across the pond until next year and then I need to build and test it!

Dale