Making that Bullet Collator

[GWS]

Try it again.....YouTube keeps changing the steps....

[argus357]

Working now, thanks!

[GWS]

....... Will your mods be available in the project folders?........

I think so. Pretty sure TylerR is working on that. He's a bit busy this week, so patience......

Remember you need to print out the APP_Base_Slide, then mount Lee's intermediate upper piece (with the claw inserted) to it, then print out the APP_Bracket_Main, finally the caliber specific insert, in this case the .357 one.

[ranger391xt]

Background:

I have an old bullet collator on my first progressive, (Hornady Pistol Bullet Feeder, modified to flip bullets, but Hornady bullet feed dies I found are not as reliable as TylerR's 3Dprinted versions.....so after the first print and experience with .45, I also printed .40 and his newest .38/357 and found them to work just as well. So I'm snug and smug there.

So I decided to load some .357 Magnum (haven't for a while). But I like to deprime and wet tumble first these days.....after all I have and love my little Lee APP that's capable of making short work of that sort of thing.

Coincidentally, I've printed Tyler's ever so cool quick caliber change for the APP, and needed to print a .357 adapter for it. But the one He has on the list of adapters doesn't work as well as I wanted. Tyler doesn't load .357 so I doubt he tested that one, since the top hole in the adapter is small only allowing the case to drop in, but not made for tubing or other things above it, so obviously it's a prototype, not quite finished.

And....I like my adapters to be cut out tight around the case and the adapter as long as it can be to prevent push outs of the next case in line.

So I modified this prototype .357 adapter in DesignSpark, to make it longer and with a bottom cutout required by that longer body making it suspended only a couple of mm above the medium high shuttle slide.

Here's two pictures:





Printed it out this morning and found the upper hole diameter problem, and one more minor problem....I just assumed Tyler had the adapter diameter the same as all the other adapters....not so lucky....that's what you get when you pick a caliber he doesn't load! It wasn't a problem I couldn't fix with 30 minutes of sanding with 320, 500, 1500 grit sandpaper....but we will get it fixed before others print one.

UpDate! Turns out the barrel diameter WAS the same as all others.....16.4mm O.S. diameter! So.....it was the print. I had changed filament to a bright red and didn't change the 220C temp.....and at .12mm high it obviously squishes wider......We have so many variables that can bite you in this 3DP technology.....it was not Tyler's fault....he can't predict changing filament and what that does. The 220C temp was only necessary for the Green I was using when I made my most successful anti stringing settings yet. So I need to reduce the temp....to what is guesswork.

I chose the easy way on top of the adapter....just drilled the hole to 1/2" diameter, 1/2" deep, and stuck 1/2" tubing in....easy peasy.

So how well does it deprime .357? You can be the judge of that......

Read this and watched your vid....

I've deprived a few hundred 357 cases the past few days and operation was not nearly as smooth for me. Cases seem to want to bind up going into the shell holder about 25% of the time. GECO head stamp cases are super tight and sometimes will not feed at all. Some times it seems the cases are sliding across at a slight angle. I am using the tallest shuttle.

Additional Info: I removed the detent from the shell holder adapter early on because of binding issues. I'm using the updated slider bottom.

Any suggestions what to look at or adjust?

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

[TylerR]

Background:

I have an old bullet collator on my first progressive, (Hornady Pistol Bullet Feeder, modified to flip bullets, but Hornady bullet feed dies I found are not as reliable as TylerR's 3Dprinted versions.....so after the first print and experience with .45, I also printed .40 and his newest .38/357 and found them to work just as well. So I'm snug and smug there.

So I decided to load some .357 Magnum (haven't for a while). But I like to deprime and wet tumble first these days.....after all I have and love my little Lee APP that's capable of making short work of that sort of thing.

Coincidentally, I've printed Tyler's ever so cool quick caliber change for the APP, and needed to print a .357 adapter for it. But the one He has on the list of adapters doesn't work as well as I wanted. Tyler doesn't load .357 so I doubt he tested that one, since the top hole in the adapter is small only allowing the case to drop in, but not made for tubing or other things above it, so obviously it's a prototype, not quite finished.

And....I like my adapters to be cut out tight around the case and the adapter as long as it can be to prevent push outs of the next case in line.

So I modified this prototype .357 adapter in DesignSpark, to make it longer and with a bottom cutout required by that longer body making it suspended only a couple of mm above the medium high shuttle slide.

GWS,

Going over this now, and have a few questions. The original inserts I made for 44 and 357 were both designed to use the tallest shuttle. The one you modified appears to use the medium shuttle. What was the reason for going to the shorter one? Also, all of the inserts I made use the 4 different sizes of Lee clear tubing. The 357 insert can use either the #3 or #4 sized tube. Just curious on that one as you said it was not designed to take tubing.

ETA, never mind on the shuttle height. I see now that it is about 1mm too high. Making that change now.

[TylerR]

Read this and watched your vid....

I've deprived a few hundred 357 cases the past few days and operation was not nearly as smooth for me. Cases seem to want to bind up going into the shell holder about 25% of the time. GECO head stamp cases are super tight and sometimes will not feed at all. Some times it seems the cases are sliding across at a slight angle. I am using the tallest shuttle.

Additional Info: I removed the detent from the shell holder adapter early on because of binding issues. I'm using the updated slider bottom.

Any suggestions what to look at or adjust?

Can you post a vid of yours failing? That would help us troubleshoot it with you.

[GWS]

Read this and watched your vid....

I've deprived a few hundred 357 cases the past few days and operation was not nearly as smooth for me. Cases seem to want to bind up going into the shell holder about 25% of the time. GECO head stamp cases are super tight and sometimes will not feed at all. Some times it seems the cases are sliding across at a slight angle. I am using the tallest shuttle.

Additional Info: I removed the detent from the shell holder adapter early on because of binding issues. I'm using the updated slider bottom.

Any suggestions what to look at or adjust?

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

Been there. Some brands of brass have really rough I.D. imprints on their bases and hang on any little thing. LC brass on .223 is bad too. If you notice on my video, I'm using an early shell holder that isn't plowed....Lee started plowing them to help with brass with with proud primers sticking down, but it didn't help with the rough imprinting. For brass that's that rough under the bases I keep a piece of sandpaper....220 or rougher glued to a flat surface (like a 2X4 or something). I know it a pain to rub each base along the sandpaper, but it does really help....For rough based brass I slide it over the paper once first, before I deprime. It's still faster than depriming on anything else. Proud primers don't help that step tho.

Also, I've found that the closer the insert is to the shuttle piece the more stable. And for .357 you need to use the intermediate high shuttle so that the case is a little higher than the shuttle. That way insert dropping down can be close, even 1/16" from the top of the shuttle.

That's why I cut a piece out of the bottom....so the dropped brass can push through it, yet the NEXT case above can stay stable and only drops the WHOLE 1/16 to the top of the shuttle and so stays vertical.......then that one drops into the claws when the shuttle comes back and it all repeats.....nice and stable.

As for the cases going smoothly into the case holder.....again that depends on the smoothness of the case's base, and how the shell holder is turned.

As for the "binding issues" with the case holder.....do you mean it's too tight to turn easily or too hard to get past the detent in the shell holder adapter. I can't see it working well without the detent. I know it's a chore to get a shell holder past the detent, but I just hold it down with a small screwdriver while I insert it. If it's too tight to turn freely call Lee....it should rotate with ease.....they will replace the part.

[GWS]

GWS,

Going over this now, and have a few questions. The original inserts I made for 44 and 357 were both designed to use the tallest shuttle. The one you modified appears to use the medium shuttle. What was the reason for going to the shorter one? Also, all of the inserts I made use the 4 different sizes of Lee clear tubing. The 357 insert can use either the #3 or #4 sized tube. Just curious on that one as you said it was not designed to take tubing.

Medium shuttle is a little lower than the brass as you noticed. With the tall shuttle you can't get the insert low enough, the next case in line falls lower than the shuttle top.....so when the shuttle moves forward the case tilts or worse.

With the medium shuttle and the insert only a 1/16 above it....all stays stable and straight. The cutout keeps the dropped one straight when the push starts.

On my first print the hole in the top of the .357 insert was too small to use tubing big enough for the .357 rim. The rim was the problem....so I drilled it to 1/2" and stuck a 2-1/2" long tube in, then slid the 9/16" (Lee's most prevalent size) over it. You might check my file to ensure I have the proper diameter hole for you....just remember that stupid rim sticking out.

[TylerR]

Medium shuttle is a little lower than the brass as you noticed. With the tall shuttle you can't get the insert low enough, the next case in line falls lower than the shuttle top.....so when the shuttle moves forward the case tilts or worse.

With the medium shuttle and the insert only a 1/16 above it....all stays stable and straight. The cutout keeps the dropped one straight when the push starts.

On my first print the hole in the top of the .357 insert was too small to use tubing big enough for the .357 rim. The rim was the problem....so I drilled it to 1/2" and stuck a 2-1/2" long tube in, then slid the 9/16" (Lee's most prevalent size) over it. You might check my file to ensure I have the proper diameter hole for you....just remember that stupid rim sticking out.

I figured out the slight distance issue right after I hit reply.
Thank you for pointing that issue out. I do not load 357, but I do 44 mag. Somehow I must have missed that.

I just tested the Lee #3 and #4 tubes and the rim fits in both of them. The 44mag brass rim fits in the #4 tube.

[GWS]

I figured out the slight distance issue right after I hit reply.
Thank you for pointing that issue out. I do not load 357, but I do 44 mag. Somehow I must have missed that.

I just tested the Lee #3 and #4 tubes and the rim fits in both of them. The 44mag brass rim fits in the #4 tube.

Lee's tubes come in 4 sizes.

1. is the tiny 1/4x15 heavy wall tube suitable for .22 bullet feeding only. (PA4340) id is .28" od is .33".

2. is the "SM Feed tube" (BF3490) .49" od. and .42" id. I used a similar thinwall 1/2" tube 2 to 2-1/2" long to go into the .357 adapter. I did that out of necessity.....I must have lost my Lee #2. The .357 case drops fine into the 1/2" tube I then modified the insert file to allow that 1/2" thinwall to drop in......you probably could do the same to allow the 9/16" #4 to drop in, angling the bottom ledge in the insert to not have any ledge to hand on....assuming there's enough thickness in the insert part with that big a hole in the top. So there may be other options.
have.....will it not drop into Lee's #2????

3. is the (TR2458) tube that's .56" od. and 49" id. This is the one that came with the APP that has a thick wall.

4. is the (BF 3489) tube that I measured at .569" od and .53" id. This is the 9/16" tube that comes with the APP, but also 4 of these come with the 4-way Universal. This one is the main case and bullet feeder tube. I did not attempt to drill out the insert to directly fit that size, thinking that might leave a ledge inside the insert that might cause hangs.

I just drilled out my first .357 insert and stuck my 1/2" od thinwall 2 1/2" long (not Lees) Then I just dropped the #4 9/16" tube over the top......note: I used a case deburr/chamfer tool to bevel the top inside of the 1/2" one so that cases don't hang on the edge where the main tubing goes over it.

I'm assuming TylerR's numbered tubes are probably the same as the above?....and so perhaps his #2 with .42 id .49 od would work for the one I pushed in the top of the insert?????? But he didn't say the .357 case would drop into his #2?

TylerR....let me know if that doesn't work.

I like to use the generic 9/16 tube for most things fed except the smaller bullets.....but you can telescope small tubes into larger tubes as needed.(but bevel tops where reduced) If the Lee tubes don't cooperate that way, you can order online really cheap "Thinline Clear Tubing" that does, in 1/16" increments, 1/32 walls 1/4" to 3/4"....but don't order Chinese or it'll be metric and it won't telescope worth a d____.

BTW, it's possible that the last two sizes part # are reversed. Ask Lee before you order them. The thinwall is the one that comes with the 4-way....least it did on mine. The thick wall with a smaller id may not fit the biggest cases.

[GWS]

TylerR: I've been editing the last post to clarify it more....if you only read it earlier read once more.

[TylerR]

TylerR: I've been editing the last post to clarify it more....if you only read it earlier read once more.

Everything you typed makes sense. The .357 insert is designed to be used with the Lee #3 and #4 tubes. Based on my test, the #3 would work perfect for the job, but #4 would work just as well.

[GWS]

Everything you typed makes sense. The .357 insert is designed to be used with the Lee #3 and #4 tubes. Based on my test, the #3 would work perfect for the job, but #4 would work just as well.

Okay, so you've modified the top of the insert for #3 to be dropped directly in now? With it's smaller id (than the #4) cases should be less cranked than in the #4 going down....which looks better. My non Lee 91/6 tubes are 3' long......filled up with cases it does bear down on the shuttle with the additional weight....but it seems to still work.....such might wear out the spring sooner. But it you add a collator....moot point! I'll probably print one more when you get the files added.....just a little simpler/cleaner.

Wish I could edit Design Spark as fast as you can....seems like I have to relearn it every day.....you younger guys don't have that problem......and 40 years of Autocad to unlearn. Habits......

[TylerR]

Okay, so you've modified the top of the insert for #3 to be dropped directly in now? With it's smaller id (than the #4) cases should be less cranked than in the #4 going down....which looks better. My non Lee 91/6 tubes are 3' long......filled up with cases it does bear down on the shuttle with the additional weight....but it seems to still work.....such might wear out the spring sooner. But it you add a collator....moot point! I'll probably print one more when you get the files added.....just a little simpler/cleaner.

I did not modify it. It is the same as it was. Maybe you had an older version?

I did modify it to use the shorter shuttle though based on your finding.

The latest version is posted.

Oh and guess what I am finally doing? Modifying my other two collators to also use the proximity sensor. No more light sensor for me. Prox is just so much better

[GWS]

Looks good......the wide mouth was certainly not in my download, and it was only a few weeks old, knowing you are constantly fiddling with the files. (the last time you sent the source to me anyway.)

Speak about fiddling....that's why I quit the light sensors....every new caliber required adjusting....

Someday I may even convert you to the tighter case cutouts to stop the next case higher from messing with the case down on the deck.

[TylerR]

Looks good......the wide mouth was certainly not in my download, and it was only a few weeks old, knowing you are constantly fiddling with the files. (the last time you sent the source to me anyway.)

Speak about fiddling....that's why I quit the light sensors....every new caliber required adjusting....

Someday I may even convert you to the tighter case cutouts to stop the next case higher from messing with the case down on the deck.

I just posted the .223 and .308 versions you modified.

[GWS]

Honored ..... the .270 one works perfect too. You don't have one for 30-06 do you?

Now we need to fix the main bracket...........just KIDDING! That idea was the ultimate genius. Really TylerR, you ought to patent and sell this whole APP quick-change idea! Not having to change the main bracket was what the whole APP system needed. Takes away the drudgery of caliber change, bullet to case change ..... makes using Lee's APP way more fun.

Lee's genius was creating a single station press with a bullet/case feeder....it makes all the difference. You perfected that idea with the quick-change.

[TylerR]

Honored ..... the .270 one works perfect too. You don't have one for 30-06 do you?

Now we need to fix the main bracket...........just KIDDING! That idea was the ultimate genius. Really TylerR, you ought to patent and sell this whole APP quick-change idea! Not having to change the main bracket was what the whole APP system needed. Takes away the drudgery of caliber change, bullet to case change ..... makes using Lee's APP way more fun.

I don't have those. If you send them over I will add

Well it has been in the public domain too long now to patent, but I wouldn't anyway. Sometimes its good to just put a new concept out there and not look to profit.

[GWS]

I don't have those. If you send them over I will add

Oh....I thought I did that for 270. 30-06 I don't have yet.....just a matter of opening the neck a little, tho. Here's a short vid of the .270 one....I will email the source to you.

[TylerR]

Just posted a 30-06 insert.
https://github.com/BF556/Feeder/blob...nsert_3006.stl