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Thread: Making that Bullet Collator

  1. #4881
    Boolit Mold
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    Making that Bullet Collator

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerR View Post
    I would suggest trying the same thing I recommended to mktacop in this post.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5263824
    Thanks. It probably makes sense to reconfigure anyways and get a powder cop or lockout die.

    Another issue I am having is not dopping 9mm bullets from the collator. Its getting hung up. I am using spring adapter 10. I tried different speeds / tilts and chamfering it a bit. I could try more clutch tension but it seems like it would be better to have them drop free. What am I missing? It’s working ok with a 12 flush I printed so I’m gonna print the 10 flush since I don’t have a 12 spring here yet.
    Last edited by robpiat; 09-20-2021 at 11:29 PM.

  2. #4882
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    I see things can get crowded with the tall stuff. There is one other way .... and it requires less clearance where it's most crowded over the press. I mean using the proximity sensor as shown in the pictures below:


    See, doesn't required the height....spring mounts low as in the above .45 feed die, and can be angled away quickly any direction.

    And below, looking up at the collator is the prox. sensor and it's small spring coming down (this one is .223 rifle) TylerR has an even shorter spring adapter than my old one shown below the sensor housing. Tyler has a different sensor housing too, but I think its pretty short....or you can download mine in the divergent, er "contributers" file.

    Last edited by GWS; 09-21-2021 at 12:07 AM.

  3. #4883
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWS View Post
    I see things can get crowded with the tall stuff. There is one other way .... and it requires less clearance where it's most crowded over the press. I mean using the proximity sensor as shown in the pictures below:

    See, doesn't required the height....spring mounts low as in the above .45 feed die, and can be angled away quickly any direction.

    And below, looking up at the collator is the prox. sensor and it's small spring coming down (this one is .223 rifle) TylerR has an even shorter spring adapter than my old one shown below the sensor housing. Tyler has a different sensor housing too, but I think its pretty short....or you can download mine in the divergent, er "contributers" file.
    This is also a very good possible solution that you could try.

  4. #4884
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    Thanks....Makes sense.

  5. #4885
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    I've been quite late to the bullet feeder die party, mainly because I needed to get the collators right first. And too, I had Hornady dies for pistol and RCBS dies for the two rifle calibers I load most of.....and I admit I was just a little leery of plastic feeder dies.........so I could afford to be leery since I didn't think I needed them.....what a mistake.

    So now I've printed two pistol versions......and I'm totally impressed! These are more, no, way more reliable than the Hornady ones, and dang near free.....what's not to like? Even color-coded by caliber.... I love these things!! Thank you TylerR for sharing this bit of light!



    These plus two more future prints for .357mag and 9mm, will be used on my modified Hornady Pistol Bullet collator, which I converted to a much more efficient bullet flipping tool about a year before I even knew about 3D printers.

    A page back, I posted a first try disaster printing the green one. It took me two days to figure out what the problem was. Like I said.....ever learning.... https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5264941

    Still being pretty much a novice at 3d printing, my slicer was finally successfully adjusted a few months ago to get rid of a bad case "stringing" on prints. Thought I had it all figured out with some serious filament retraction settings. It worked well on big prints, but printing these skinny cylinders was another thing since it tried to retract at each layer.....and a new layer happens every 4 seconds or so, or less.

    That caused the filament to grind, over and over, at the top of the Bowden Tube....and very quickly quit feeding filament.....see the picture (last post last page). So I learned the hard way, that retraction that works for big models doesn't necessarily work for real small cylinders. So I settled for a little stringing, and actually found that these feeder dies and adapters print beautifully, near perfect, if you print ONE at a time.....instead of the stringing between die and insert trying to print a set.

    I still printed the set for the green one too, but for the rest I will print them one at a time for the best print. See pictures of what I mean below:


    Notice the stringing and thread damage that has to be trimmed with a knife, vs. below how beautiful the threads are if I had printed each alone....

    Last edited by GWS; 09-21-2021 at 11:49 PM.

  6. #4886
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWS View Post
    I've been quite late to the bullet feeder die party, mainly because I needed to get the collators right first. And too, I had Hornady dies for pistol and RCBS dies for the two rifle calibers I load most of.....and I admit I was just a little leery of plastic feeder dies.........so I could afford to be leery since I didn't think I needed them.....what a mistake.

    So now I've printed two pistol versions......and I'm totally impressed! These are more, no, way more reliable than the Hornady ones, and dang near free.....what's not to like? Even color-coded by caliber.... I love these things!! Thank you TylerR for sharing this bit of light!


    These plus two more future prints for .357mag and 9mm, will be used on my modified Hornady Pistol Bullet collator, which I converted to a much more efficient bullet flipping tool about a year before I even knew about 3D printers.

    A page back, I posted a first try disaster printing the green one. It took me two days to figure out what the problem was. Like I said.....ever learning.... https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5264941

    Still being pretty much a novice at 3d printing, my slicer was finally successfully adjusted a few months ago to get rid of a bad case "stringing" on prints. Thought I had it all figured out with some serious filament retraction settings. It worked well on big prints, but printing these skinny cylinders was another thing since it tried to retract at each layer.....and a new layer happens every 4 seconds or so, or less.

    That caused the filament to grind, over and over, at the top of the Bowden Tube....and very quickly quit feeding filament.....see the picture (last post last page). So I learned the hard way, that retraction that works for big models doesn't necessarily work for real small cylinders. So I settled for a little stringing, and actually found that these feeder dies and adapters print beautifully, near perfect, if you print ONE at a time.....instead of the stringing between die and insert trying to print a set.

    I still printed the set for the green one too, but for the rest I will print them one at a time for the best print. See pictures of what I mean below:

    Notice the stringing and thread damage that has to be trimmed with a knife, vs. below how beautiful the threads are if I had printed it alone....
    The final version of those dies look beautiful!

    For the .357 I believe the new .38 special die I just created will work fine. I have not tested it though.

  7. #4887
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    I used TylerR's "Parts Generator.jar" from github. I can't figure out how the Slip_Clutch_Top_Cover.stl is supposed to mount. The Slip_Clutch_Hex.stl has an OD of about 31.5mm. The Slip_Clutch_Top_Cover.stl has an ID of about 34.5mm and no screw holes. What is supposed to hold it on? A friction fit is certainly out of the question.

  8. #4888
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    Quote Originally Posted by vavaroutsos View Post
    I used TylerR's "Parts Generator.jar" from github. I can't figure out how the Slip_Clutch_Top_Cover.stl is supposed to mount. The Slip_Clutch_Hex.stl has an OD of about 31.5mm. The Slip_Clutch_Top_Cover.stl has an ID of about 34.5mm and no screw holes. What is supposed to hold it on? A friction fit is certainly out of the question.
    The Top Cover is a bit of an outdated part. I would strongly suggest using the new QD handle instead. That being said, the cover is designed to friction fit inside of the collator plate center hole. It was really only useful on very tall collator plates to keep bullets or brass from falling in.

  9. #4889
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerR View Post
    The final version of those dies look beautiful!

    For the .357 I believe the new .38 special die I just created will work fine. I have not tested it though.
    They are beautiful.....a great designer designed them! I sure like those XYLtech Satin PLA blends.....except their red one.....but I've seen another brand of Satin Red that I think I'll order. I know the 4 parts are made to mix and match, but I think I'd rather print copies for each caliber so they are always ready to go.

    As for the .357, it is just a longer .38....so just unscrewing the die the difference, and it should work the same. Is it added to your files yet? If it is, that one will be next to print and test.....
    Last edited by GWS; 09-22-2021 at 12:12 AM.

  10. #4890
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWS View Post
    They are beautiful.....great designer! sure like those Satin PLA blends.....except their red one.....but I've seen another brand of Satin Red that I think I'll order. I know the 4 parts are made to mix and match, but I think I'd rather print copies for each caliber so they are always ready to go.

    As for the .357, it is just a longer .38....so just unscrewing the die the difference, and it should work the same. Is it added to your files yet? If it is, that one will be next to print and test.....
    Just added

    https://github.com/BF556/Feeder/blob...Die_38_Set.stl

  11. #4891
    Boolit Master GWS's Avatar
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    Thanks! Will start printing them in the morning!

  12. #4892
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerR View Post
    The Top Cover is a bit of an outdated part. I would strongly suggest using the new QD handle instead. That being said, the cover is designed to friction fit inside of the collator plate center hole. It was really only useful on very tall collator plates to keep bullets or brass from falling in.
    Tyler, thanks for the quick reply. I didn't have any collator plates that thick and hadn't even consider that's how the cover worked.

    I tried to print one of the collator handles using the recommended slicer settings (no supports), but ran into an issue. I'm using Cura and when it came to the horizontal surface closing the cylinder, the two screw holes caused a huge problem. Cura tried to print the hole outlines in mid air and things quickly became a mess with hanging filament getting stuck everywhere.

    How do you print this part without supports with those screw holes? Is there some advanced slicer options that you are using to accomplish this? I have been looking but haven't found anything that looks like it would help.

    Thanks,

    Pete

  13. #4893
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    Quote Originally Posted by vavaroutsos View Post
    Tyler, thanks for the quick reply. I didn't have any collator plates that thick and hadn't even consider that's how the cover worked.

    I tried to print one of the collator handles using the recommended slicer settings (no supports), but ran into an issue. I'm using Cura and when it came to the horizontal surface closing the cylinder, the two screw holes caused a huge problem. Cura tried to print the hole outlines in mid air and things quickly became a mess with hanging filament getting stuck everywhere.

    How do you print this part without supports with those screw holes? Is there some advanced slicer options that you are using to accomplish this? I have been looking but haven't found anything that looks like it would help.

    Thanks,

    Pete
    Hi Pete. It looks like this is not illustrated correctly in the manual. This post shows the correct orientation for printing.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5224394

  14. #4894
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    As promised: The two main parts to the new .38 caliber bullet feed die are done, 3rd out of 4 printing. Quality is way better printing one at a time, least ways on my Creality CR-10 v2.

    So here's the first try.....just feeding on my Summit to a .357 mag case. Works as well as any other. Case height is only 1/4" higher than .38 special.

    Green again....because settings are right for that filament....and I'm feeling lazy today!



    Batting a 1000 on this one Tyler! Perfecto! I only had to hand twist a drill bit inside the insert for about 5 seconds, and use an exacto knife for a single inside string inside the die barrel....and 5 seconds. Oh and just a single turn with the knife in each ball bearing hole.....Easiest one yet!
    Last edited by GWS; 09-23-2021 at 04:05 PM.

  15. #4895
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    Thanks to all that have contributed to this epic thread, my main body is printing as I type.
    One question I have not found an answer to yet, which collator plate is suitable for .38spl / .357 magnum pistol brass base down please?

  16. #4896
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    Does anyone have pictures of assembled nose down bullets feed to Lee APP ? My imagination fails me here I'm planning to use light sensor but I guess any kind of sensor tube would be similar in assembly.

  17. #4897
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    Quote Originally Posted by argus357 View Post
    Thanks to all that have contributed to this epic thread, my main body is printing as I type.
    One question I have not found an answer to yet, which collator plate is suitable for .38spl / .357 magnum pistol brass base down please?
    Good question as it seems 99% of the help is for cases that are rimless. I'm assuming you know that "custom" plates made from the Openscad plate builder, so you should have Openscad the free programmer's cad program loaded, right?

    I'm including a snip&sketch of the .357 measurements converted to MM, which is what the 3D printing world lives by:



    You'll notice that the rim diameter is included, and it's that diameter that must fit in the holes around the brass plate you want to print.

    So the 11.2mm rim diameter is critical....the holes have to be bigger than that or they won't drop. Well .45 caliber is 11.5mm. That entered into the Openscad Plate builder would be minimum. TylerR may have more experience doing .357, so his input would be important, but on my Pre 3Dprinter mod of my old Hornady Pistol bullet feeder, I drilled .50 caliber holes all around, and guess what. It collates .45, .40, .357, 9mm BULLETS all on one plate. But.......this is cases. But I would still think the ability to drop is the same. The holes need to be big enough not to have a lot of near misses, IOW's cases that ride around the merry-go-round tilted, but not dropped all the way.

    For case feeders TylerR has already noted that there doesn't have to be a plate for every caliber, so maybe one of the plates already in .stl file list will do you, he'll be by soon and let you know. But pay attention to the slider and the drop tube.....I think he will guide you on that too.

    I still need to add one more case feeder to my already very crowded assembly line to drop pistol cases into my original Pro 2000, which is why the last thing I printed was .357 parts...... So bullets are handled for me.....cases next.
    Last edited by GWS; 09-24-2021 at 12:50 PM.

  18. #4898
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWS View Post
    Good question as it seems 99% of the help is for cases that are rimless. I'm assuming you know that "custom" plates made from the Openscad plate builder, so you should have Openscad the free programmer's cad program loaded, right?

    I'm including a snip&sketch of the .357 measurements converted to MM, which is what the 3D printing world lives by:



    You'll notice that the rim diameter is included, and it's that diameter that must fit in the holes around the brass plate you want to print.
    I have used the regular small pistol base down brass plate to feed 357 mag case into the APP with some success. It will bind up on occasion when a case hasn't completely dropped, but slowing the speed down substantially reduces that.

    I was wondering about making a plate for revolver cases that is more like the 45-70 & rifle plates, where the cases would feed on their side vs standing up. Anyone tried that or have thoughts about it?

    Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

  19. #4899
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayala View Post
    Does anyone have pictures of assembled nose down bullets feed to Lee APP ? My imagination fails me here I'm planning to use light sensor but I guess any kind of sensor tube would be similar in assembly.
    There is a picture in the images folder, and there is also a video in the manual. There are about 10 ways to skin this cat, so it is hard to give a straight answer. Do you plan to mount the sensor under the collator or on top of the APP press? Do you want to use the APP clear tubes at all? Do you want to use the offset connectors, or just have a straight shot up?

  20. #4900
    Boolit Master TylerR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger391xt View Post
    I have used the regular small pistol base down brass plate to feed 357 mag case into the APP with some success. It will bind up on occasion when a case hasn't completely dropped, but slowing the speed down substantially reduces that.

    I was wondering about making a plate for revolver cases that is more like the 45-70 & rifle plates, where the cases would feed on their side vs standing up. Anyone tried that or have thoughts about it?

    Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
    I do not load .357. I have not done any testing with rimmed cases. At some point I will get around to figuring out .44mag

    Edited: I just ran a quick test with a piece of .38 special brass and the large pistol brass plate. It worked well (better then the small plate), so I would start there. The idea of feeding them on their side may also possibly work.
    Last edited by TylerR; 09-24-2021 at 02:11 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check