Anneal .22 Hornet brass?

[Kraschenbirn]

Anyone have experience annealing the necks of (very!) old .22 Hornet brass?

It was almost 50 years ago when I obtained my first .22 Hornet…a Savage 219 shortened to an 18” barrel…from a former part-time Alaskan bush pilot. Fred Phillips was a USAF Navigation Equipment specialist who also held civilian commercial pilot and flight instructor ratings. He’d just been transferred from Elmendorf to the base where I was working as a civilian and, as he didn’t feel he needed a ‘survival gun’ in Central Illinois, he sold me the Savage…along with almost a full case of USAF-issue ammunition from the mid-1960s.. (USAF crews in Alaska were issued M6 .22 Hornet/.410 shotgun Survival Weapons as part of their bail-out gear.)

Needless to say, with almost 1000 rounds of milsurp FMJ, it was quite sometime before I began to feel a need to reload Hornets. And, when I did, I managed to snag almost three thousand Sierra ‘seconds’ from the factory outlet store while passing through Sedalia, MO on business. (They sold those ‘seconds’ BY THE POUND back then!)

Now, the old Savage is long-gone but I’m still shooting that 1960s brass through my current Hornets...a Ruger #3 and a 10-inch Contender…and beginning to lose a considerable percentage to split necks. I’m no newbie to case annealing; I regularly (re)form brass to feed several of my old milsurps but I’ve never tried working with case necks as thin as the Hornet’s so any hints will be appreciated.

Btw: I still have two unopened boxes of that USAF ammo and have never managed to duplicate the ballistics of those original loads…like 45 gr. RNFMJs chrono'd at just over 2700 fps from an 18” barrel. Nothing in any of my library of reloading data comes even close.

[15meter]

Never tried to anneal Hornet brass, I always assumed it would be just like beating your head against a brick wall--it would feel so good when you quit!

As for a hotter load, Hornady used to list reqular loads for most rifles and Ruger #1 and #3 loads. I use 12.6 grains of Winchester 296 under a Sierra 45 grain, their #1310. May tickle 3000 fps.

I don't remember which Hornady manual, early 90's edition I would guess.

[gc45]

Hornet brass is easy as others to anneal, do not heat it to much, brass is thin, if the neck area is red you have heated it to much. personally, I have made and fired 1000's of rounds of 17Ackley Hornet ammo with cases being reloaded over and over and seldom get splits using Win brass.
your older mil spec brass might not hold up as long, never had any to work with.

[M-Tecs]

I had a bunch of new old stock cases Winchester 22 Hornet that would have a high percentage of cracks when setting the bullet. Once annealed the issues went away.

[Mk42gunner]

You might compare case volume of your military brass with current commercial brass. I recall that in Pet Loads it was mentioned that Hornet brass had been made thicker sometime in probably the early 1950's. Who knows which spec the USAf used for their brass?

A larger combustion chamber would allow more powder, possibly giving more velocity.

Robert

[Postell]

I form 17 Squirrel, I anneal before I form and again at the end. I use an Annealeez machine.
I use a spacer to fill in so the case is long enough.

[quack1]

I regularly anneal my 218 Bee brass, have been using the same brass for over 30 years. Lyman 225438 shoot really well in it. Probably would be the same in a hornet.

[Wayne Smith]

I just annealed my 25-20 Win brass in a pot full of sand. Get the sand up to temp (400C/750F) and put the necks in the sand for a slow count of ten and pull them out. I'm guessing this is the third time I've annealed this bunch.

[Kraschenbirn]

You might compare case volume of your military brass with current commercial brass. I recall that in Pet Loads it was mentioned that Hornet brass had been made thicker sometime in probably the early 1950's. Who knows which spec the USAf used for their brass?

A larger combustion chamber would allow more powder, possibly giving more velocity.

Robert

I've never actually measured the capacity of my milsurp brass but I suspect it's somewhat less than current commercial. Lee's 'Modern Reloading' shows a max (compressed) charge of 14.0 gr. of AA1680 and my load of 12.6 gr. AA1680 for the Ruger fills the cases halfway up the neck. Of course, I once knew an old-timer who never measured his Hornet loads, he just poured his cases full of IMR4227, struck of any excess with a straightedge, and seated his bullets...

Added observation: I've never found any specific data on those old military rounds but they were loaded with a small-grained ball powder very similar in appearance to the original Hodgdon H-110 which was reported to be pull-down from milsurp .30 Carbine.

Bill

[Charlie Horse]

I bought a Savage 340 back in the mid 70's when the Hornet was considered "obsolete". I still load for it. Neck splits have never been a big problem. More of my brass cracks at the body. Neck sizing makes the brass last longer. I've never annealed anything.

Too bad Winchester quit making 680 Ball powder. 10" Contender Hornets are gawd-awful accurate. But so was my Savage.

[rayh]

You might want to get some 700* TempLac for the neck. I also put a spot of 400* above the case head. I usually do this when first setting up my Ken Light annealer. When the 700 melts and the 400 doesn't I know I haven't messed up the head of the case. I also thin my TempLac, I find the thinned works more consistent. As mentioned the Hornet is thin and will heat up pretty quick. The same TempLac will work for all your calibers.

[hornetguy]

I haven't researched dates, but wasn't 2400 powder made for the Hornet? Does the pull down powder look anything like that?

My go-to powder, though is the AA 1680/T-680. You must shoot a bunch... I've got maybe 300-400 cases that have been loaded 4 or 5 times each, and have only seen one or two splits...

[brokeasajoke]

I anneal my 22 k hornet brass

[Charlie Horse]

I anneal my 22 k hornet brass

Do you make it from standard Hornet brass? (Do you fire standard Hornet loads in your K-Hornet?)

[Kraschenbirn]

I haven't researched dates, but wasn't 2400 powder made for the Hornet? Does the pull down powder look anything like that?...

I found an old Paco Kelly article in LASC that dates Hercules 2400 back into the 1930s when it was first labeled "2400" because it would match the old 2400 fps Hornet factory loads. It's been quite a while since I pulled down any of those original rounds but powder was definitely a true 'ball' not the tiny, irregular flakes of 2400.

My go-to powder, though is the AA 1680/T-680. You must shoot a bunch... I've got maybe 300-400 cases that have been loaded 4 or 5 times each, and have only seen one or two splits...

In 1975 (or, maybe, '76?), I started with 850 rounds (+/-) of that old milsurp 'survival' ammo. Today, not counting the two remaining sealed 'collectable' boxes, I have around 475 cases on hand and all those have been reloaded, perhaps, a half-dozen times. In the same period...counting a couple TC Contender barrels...I've owned five different Hornets without purchase of any additional brass or factory ammo. Add it up; at even a bare hundred rounds a year, that's almost 5000 rounds downrange.

Bill

[jsizemore]

The OLD 22 Hornet load with a 45gr bullet from Winchester was IMR 4227. I had a friend that jumped on the bandwagon when the Hornet was approved for Hunter Pistol Silhouette. There was no brass to be had. My buddy found 2 boxes of 50 each of that 45gr/IMR 4227 stuff on a discount table in a gun shop. I asked if he was going to pull it down and reload. Got a quick NO. He was going to use them as a fire forming load in his new barrel. I dropped out of the relay he was in so I could enjoy the show. The fireball from the end of a 10" Contender barrel is like looking at the sun. I barely caught my breath from laughing. It took him 6 months to recover from the flinch he developed from trying to shoot taco hold with his handgun. He had a couple rounds left over after the match. We pulled one down and it sure looked and burned like IMR 4227.

[pcmacd]

Anyone have experience annealing the necks of (very!) old .22 Hornet brass?

It was almost 50 years ago when I obtained my first .22 Hornet…a Savage 219 shortened to an 18” barrel…from a former part-time Alaskan bush pilot. Fred Phillips was a USAF Navigation Equipment specialist who also held civilian commercial pilot and flight instructor ratings. He’d just been transferred from Elmendorf to the base where I was working as a civilian and, as he didn’t feel he needed a ‘survival gun’ in Central Illinois, he sold me the Savage…along with almost a full case of USAF-issue ammunition from the mid-1960s.. (USAF crews in Alaska were issued M6 .22 Hornet/.410 shotgun Survival Weapons as part of their bail-out gear.)

Needless to say, with almost 1000 rounds of milsurp FMJ, it was quite sometime before I began to feel a need to reload Hornets. And, when I did, I managed to snag almost three thousand Sierra ‘seconds’ from the factory outlet store while passing through Sedalia, MO on business. (They sold those ‘seconds’ BY THE POUND back then!)

Now, the old Savage is long-gone but I’m still shooting that 1960s brass through my current Hornets...a Ruger #3 and a 10-inch Contender…and beginning to lose a considerable percentage to split necks. I’m no newbie to case annealing; I regularly (re)form brass to feed several of my old milsurps but I’ve never tried working with case necks as thin as the Hornet’s so any hints will be appreciated.

Btw: I still have two unopened boxes of that USAF ammo and have never managed to duplicate the ballistics of those original loads…like 45 gr. RNFMJs chrono'd at just over 2700 fps from an 18” barrel. Nothing in any of my library of reloading data comes even close.

Annealing rifle brass is LOTS easier than most think.

See the last half of this post #15 for my method, which came directly from "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" by Dr. Ken Howell.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ghlight=anneal

.....

[rbuck351]

I think the original mil hornet powder was H116 which I think is the same or very similar to W680 and 1680. A few years back I picked up 3 8lb jugs of H116 which came with a data sheet showing it loaded in 30 carbine, 22H and 7.62x39. H116 is all I use in my H and KH.

[TNsailorman]

I started out annealing with a propane torch and spinning the case in a socket. But as time went along and I got older I realized I was going to wear out before the brass split and I quit annealing. I haven't annealed any brass in some time now and don't plan to do so. james

[jmorris]

I have but I found best accuracy by just sizing only the portion of the neck that holds the bullet and leave the rest of the case blow out and it just hasn’t seemed necessary to keep them from splitting like using the FL sizing die as intended, where the case is moving around a lot more, from being sized with clearance and then blown out each time.

My Van Norman Contender barrel shoots in the .3’s pushing the 35 gn v-max. Using the technique.