Any pet 6.5 Japanese loads?

[bruce drake]

The 6.5x50 cartridge was out about the same time as our 30
-06 was developed. We were stuck on a 30 cal bullet by tradition. The Garand was originally chambered for the 276 Pederson cartridge until Gen. MacArthur got involved.

[madsenshooter]

Actually, the 6.5 jap was introduced shortly after our 30/40 Krag, 1895. The Pederson had a similar body diameter to the 6.5, you can form Pederson from 6.5x54MS.

[bruce drake]

Folks,

I'm taking my T38 to a 200 yard highpower match tomorrow. There is a Vintage Bolt Action Match in November that I want to do well with cast boolets in and I figure my Arisaka is my best shot at scoring well.

I'll let you know how I did tomorrow evening!

Bruce

[StarMetal]

The 6.5x50 cartridge was out about the same time as our 30
-06 was developed. We were stuck on a 30 cal bullet by tradition. The Garand was originally chambered for the 276 Pederson cartridge until Gen. MacArthur got involved.

I don't agree it was MacArthur's fault. It was more economics. A war broke out, we had tons of 30-06 surplus and some various weapons to fire it. It would have been foolish to field a new weapon and cartridge both. As it was we had quite a few different rifles fielded in the beginning of WWII. I believe some even had 30-40 Krags and Enfields.

I agree it would have been a pretty cool cartridge and the Garand would have held more then 8 of them too!

Joe

[StarMetal]

I had sometimes wondered if the Type 65 US cartridge (7.62 NATO) didn't come about because of experiments like the one above with the 6.5 Jap cartridge. "Wow, look guys, here's this itty bitty case and it's pushing a bullet with the same sectional density as a 190gr .30 caliber, bet we could shorten the 06 and do the same." Could it be that's where the Type 65 came from, someone just left out the point when they designated the type?

I'd say if the U.S. was inspired by a foreign Army's cartridge to develop what became our 7.62x51 it's the Russian's 7.62x54R.

Joe

[bruce drake]

The original .276 Pederson Garand was loaded with a 10rnd clip. They are out there. Collectors pay big bucks for them.

[Bret4207]

I'd say if the U.S. was inspired by a foreign Army's cartridge to develop what became our 7.62x51 it's the Russian's 7.62x54R.

Joe

With all due respect Joe, why would you think that? The 30/40 Krag, yes. But IIRC it was a German development that spurred the 7.62X51 development, one of their machine gun or early "assault rifle" rounds that was a shortened 8x57.

Just wondering.

[StarMetal]

With all due respect Joe, why would you think that? The 30/40 Krag, yes. But IIRC it was a German development that spurred the 7.62X51 development, one of their machine gun or early "assault rifle" rounds that was a shortened 8x57.

Just wondering.

I'm just saying that because the Ruskie round is basically a 308 equivalent with about the same ballistics is all.

It could very well be as you mentioned with the German round. That's definitely more close then getting the idea from a 6.5 Jap.

Bret, you know the 7.62x51 was developed from the 300 Savage. I believe the 300 Savages name in the development loop was the T44. So it might be interesting to find out where Savage got the idea for that round as it's a very old one.



Joe

[Safeshot]

I tried a number of bullet types, popular brands of jacketed bullets in various weights in a T38 rifle re-chambered to 6.5mm Roberts. Some of the bullets never made it to the target (just a gray "puff" down range - 25 to 75 yards). The lighter ones were really bad. I then tried some "Privi Partisan" 139 gr soft point with a boat tail (from Graf and Son - Web page). They were .264 dia., very easy to load and more accurate than any of the others with all loads that I used. They appear to have a heavy jacket. This may be an isolated case, but they worked very well for me and they are the "cheapest" 6.5mm bullets I could find and they all made it to the target at 50 and 100 yards and also ring the 100 yard "gong" very well. YMMV, Safeshot

[bruce drake]

I should have saved my match fees.

At 200 yards, with a center hold, I was either hitting the very top of the target frame (400yard sight setting) or the very bottom of the frame (Battle Sight 300 yard setting) with the original rough rear sights. So I pulled myself off the line until I can put a receiver sight with 1/4 minute sights on the rear. It would give me an aperture sight with repeatable sights. Give me time and it will be scoring in highpower tourneys.

Bruce

BTW - I was shooting 2.5 MOA for the 40 shots I did put down range. Its an accurate rifle. I just didn't feel like shooting with hold-offs.

[bruce drake]

Oh, Safeshot, I was using Lyman 266469s lubed with LEE Liquid Alox over 12gr of Unique. I have Sierra 140gr Matchkings and Hornady 139gr Spitzers that work as well. This was an exercise in cast boolits.

Bruce

[Bret4207]

I'm just saying that because the Ruskie round is basically a 308 equivalent with about the same ballistics is all.

It could very well be as you mentioned with the German round. That's definitely more close then getting the idea from a 6.5 Jap.

Bret, you know the 7.62x51 was developed from the 300 Savage. I believe the 300 Savages name in the development loop was the T44. So it might be interesting to find out where Savage got the idea for that round as it's a very old one.



Joe

Charlie Newton if I recall correctly.

[rayg]

I am finally accepting the fact that cast bullets do not work well in the Japanese rifles because the rifles have Metford rifling with shallow rounded rifling. It works well with jacketed bullets but not cast bullets as they don't grip the rifling well.
I'm having some promising results with paper patched bullets so far. here my posting on that.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60323

[bruce drake]

RayG,
Metford rifling was originally designed for lead bullets. Cut-rifled barrels came after cordite powder was determined to erode the throats of metford rifled barrels. Somehow our forefathers figured out how to be accurate with metford rifled barrels. Considering I'm using an 85 year old barrel, I'm very happy with the 2.5 MOA groups I'm getting. I still intend to figure out a load that will tighten those groups up.

Bruce

[TAWILDCATT]

I bought a 100 rds of 220 brass new.they bulged 19 thousands.the specs for 220 did not match these cases.they were rem.
The japs found out the 6.5 did not cut it in combat thats why the 7.7.and the Italians were going to go to the 7.35 but the war started and as they had many cal one more was to much.I believe it was 25 different calibers.[cartridges]
the 276 was dumped in the early thirties.
1917 rifles were 2/3 of all rifles used in WW1.about 3.5 million to 900,000 1903s.
we also used Bertiers and SMLE.we were hard pushed to supply arms for our troops.almost the same in WW2.now we dont have the factories any more.

[TAWILDCATT]

6.5 brass is made by Privi Partizian in sebia.sold by GRAFs.hornady loads for grafs with Privi cases.
my 35 rem dont bulge in my 6.5.but I will use them up and stay with Privi.
privi plant just blew up so they will not deliver for a while.

[oldmanr]

Hello everyone,
I am trying to get my Arisaka to become an affordable option. Jacketed bullets are just too expensive.
I have started casting Lyman 140 grn. They are sized to .266. Lubed with gas check they weigh out to 136 grns.
The first loads were 20 grns 2400 and seated to cannelure above lube grooves.
They key holed...
Extended the seat to max oal and reduced load to 15.5 grns 2400; they keyholed......
I slugged the bore with one of the bullets, it came out relativly square... wide...268, narrow .263......
As far as I can find this is about as large a dia. that is available....
Any thoughts on where I should wander next??

[madsenshooter]

Maybe over to this group buy: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116328 You could also enlarge the driving bands on the mold you have by drilling a hole in the base of one of the bullets you've cast, put a screw into the hole, cut the head off the screw. Then apply polishing compound to the bands. Chuck the now headless screw into your drill and give it a spin. I found there were other modifications I had to make to my sizing and seating dies to allow the larger bullet to work in them too. And, in some cases neck turning of the cases becomes necessary.

[oldmanr]

Is the same method used to enlarge the luber/sizer? Both the lyman mold and sizer die are .266. Seems like it would be kind of rough to keep things uniform.
But anything that works is better than somthing that does not ,even it it takes some trial and error......

[madsenshooter]

Buffalo Arms sells some oversize lubrisizer dies, I need to get one myself. Seems to me that if you enlarged the die yourself, you'd constantly be removing lube that squeezed past the pusher rod. You might have to enlarge the nose diameter of your bullet too. You must have a rifle with a fairly worn bore as most I've measured are around .255 bore diameter (narrow, as you put it). Your .263 might be a long way to go by the method I stated. You may have to cast another grinding bullet after awhile.