Anyone use the old Lee Loader for shotgun shells?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I finally figured out how to get a decent crimp out of my tool.

First your stack height has to be correct. You can figure this out if you have a regular shotshell loading press and do everything on it up to the crimp. This will show you where the stack needs to be so you can duplicate it manually.

I used a LEE Pre crimper to start the crimp. However you need to squash the crimp down pretty hard to where there is only about an 1/8-3/16 hole in the middle.. This takes multiple pushes on the crimp starter. I used my Little Sinclair Arbor Press and had to get pretty serious with it in order to get the crimp started deep enough to translate into a good finished crimp.

The secret was getting the Crimp started deep enough, the rest took care of itself.

You can easily see these crimps are more than satisfactory.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

It doesn't hurt to use AA hulls that can be crimped fairly well with bare hands either.

Randy, if you built a nice compact shotgun reloader, I'd buy 2. I like the Lee Load All II, but I admit it has faults. If you machined A Lee Load All II out of aluminum, Dies for it from steel, added guide rods like your metallic press, and made the final crimp die adjustable, I'd buy one at just about any price you asked for.

[rbuck351]

Randy is spot on with the crimp and the AAs do crimp better than a lot of others. The old paper 6 point hulls were pretty good as well.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A lot more to a Shotshell Loader than a Metallic Cartridge Loader. Using someone else's dies would be the way to go, but it would get awkward when you got to the Charging/Wad/Shot station.

I've actually looked at how I could modify my tool to do it. I can do part of the steps, but not all of them. I can do sizing, depriming, and re-priming, and I can do Pre-crimp and Finish Crimp but not in the same step. But you would have to do them in batches which isn't the way to do shotshells. You need to go from start to finish in each hull for shotshells.

If I designed a shotshell tool I would instantly be competing with MEC and Hornady and of course Lee. I could make something that looked nicer and maybe even worked better but it would probably be more expensive, adn there in lies the Marketing Rub.

Just like that new Turret Press on the cover of Handloader Magazine for $1200 !!!

It doesn't do anything any better than anything else,,, I just looks and feels nicer.

The market is going to be very narrow.

Unlike most Democrats who propose solutions to "perceived problems" but never really think them thru.
I do try think them thru.

Problem here is,,, this has already been done pretty well. The Lee tools worked good once you figured them out. And the only thing missing from the instructions was the point I made above about how far to close the Pre Crimp. The only other problem I saw was if you got too heavy on the pre-crimp you could collapse the hull, it had to be done in about 3 separate pushes.

I will continue to Cogitate on the subject.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

Believe me, I've been thinking about it for years, but I don't have the skills to make it happen. I'm not a MEC fan, and I'd bet if more people tried a Ponsness Warren, they wouldn't be either. There's lots of ways to make a high end press, and as you stated, there isn't much room there. Most people paying that much are going for a progressive anyway. It's the small, portable area that shotguns are lacking. Yes, the Lee hand loader set can make shells that go bang. I wouldn't say that do all that great a job, and they are are slower than dirt. I really do think the Lee Load All II concept is a gold mine, unfortunately untouched by Lee in what, 30 years? Maybe more. I just love the concept of a small and portable press with next to no adjustment, only loading by feel. Honestly I don't think you can improve on the top half of a Lee Load All II. The powder/shot hopper and charge bar/bushings combo is perfect. If I were to build one, I would use all of that straight from Lee. The plastic base Lee uses is ok, but could be better. Something aluminum, and with a couple tabs so you could clamp it onto a table would be great. The Lee sizing ring is fantastic. There are faster ways to size a case, but I think that ring absolute perfection for what it is.

Really the problems of doing a Load All II concept come down to the dies. I love the layout, and the concept, but the dies are lacking in execution. Along with that, I think it would greatly improve the feel of the press to have 3 or 4 guide rods for the top half to slide on. The single square tube Lee uses is fine, but it doesn't have that great feel like a Ponsness Warren or your hand press. The decapping and capping works great on the Lee, no need for changes there. Same with the drop tube. I love how the Lee has both a 6 and 8 point crimp on it, no need to change anything. I also think spinning pre-crimp dies are useless on a single stage. If I was to build one, I might just buy the brass pre-crimp dies from BPI, and bolt both on. Now we come to the Achilles heel of the Lee Load All II, and the hardest one to solve. That is the final crimp. I love the idea of crimping by feel, but you need to be able to adjust the depth of the crimp. Depending on the hull you use, or what you are loading, you need that to be adjustable. I definitely prefer the Lee style outer body to a MEC's cam crimp which sucks. If you could make the center flat section threaded so you could adjust that deeper or shallower, you would have completely fixed the problem. If you were ever seriously considering such a project, I'd be glad to draw you what I had in mind, and see what you think. This would basically be a tool head made in a CNC of billet aluminum, and a base also CNC milled. A kit to be used with a bunch of Lee parts if you will.

[Robbin2bears]

I’ve tried uploading a photo but it fails to load every time. It’s definitely a Lee. All the extra parts have the Lee logo and all of its red. We haven’t unloaded all the boxes yet so some missing parts may emerge. There’s lots of supplies and some equipment to sort out, from projectiles to brass to primes and powder plus powder droppers, trickles and such. It’s old - powder brands I’ve never seen before of Bullseye. If you know of anyone who loads .222 REM Mag, .280 REM or .30-06 Improved, let me know. The brass is in original shipping boxes!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Believe me, I've been thinking about it for years,
If you were ever seriously considering such a project, I'd be glad to draw you what I had in mind, and see what you think. This would basically be a tool head made in a CNC of billet aluminum, and a base also CNC milled. A kit to be used with a bunch of Lee parts if you will.

I'd be interested in seeing some drawings of your ideas. Never know it might be feasible.
Send me something or PM me.

Randy

[Polymath]

A local guy had a set of 410 bore loading tools but didn't want to part with them. So I made my own. I fiddle and tinkered out in the garage for a couple hours and the set I have now work very well. When I accumulate a couple boxes of empties, I make up some. I roll crimp the raggy ones after trimming but if they have a good mouth then I fold crimp them. Stupid expensive up here.