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Thread: Cast Bullets In 8mm Mauser

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Newtire's Avatar
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    Tried out my Mauser I made up from my old Turk today and found it still likes the 21.5 grain SR4759 load with the Lee 175 grainer and also reached a "sweet spot" with 32 grains of H-4895. 31 grains wan't bad either but 34 grains and the groups started spreading. Guess I will have to try 33 grains.

    I had a shoulder separation on one of the non-annealed LC 68 (sized from 30-06). None of the annealed cases even cracked or neck split in the least. This separation occurred with the 21.5 grain load of SR 4759. These are also ones that I had pushed the shoulder back another .005" to get them to chamber in my 24/47. I wouldn't think that .005" would make that much difference. The headspace on the Turk is fine. Maybe it just is the brittleness alone from all the working of that brass without annealing first. I am definitely going to anneal first from now on.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    21.5 is my go to load with milsurp 4759 and 175 GB boolit.
    18.5 - 21.5 all shoot well with the group shrinking with each increase in powder charge (@50 yd).

    22.5 is a pattern about like buckshot from my 870.
    Last edited by TCLouis; 05-12-2018 at 11:21 PM.
    Amendments
    The Second there to protect the First!

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I have the Lee 175 and the Lyman 323470 at 160 grs. My rifles prefer the Lyman the guy I shoot with seems to prefer the Lee. Both cast at .324 and I size at .325 just to lube and seat gas check. The lower loads that worked in the 30 cal would have blowback in the 8mm. I believe it is because of the larger bore of the 8mm, it just takes more powder to create the same pressure. (expantion ratio)

    I have used 2400 at about 17.5 gr. and it shot well but prefer IMR 4198 at 20-22 grs with a tuft of dacron. You just have experiment, every rifle is a little different.

    I think the 8mm is an underated round, it will do almost anything I need to do. I have 2 Yugo's and one of them is at the gunsmiths now being drilled and tapped for a scope. Most of us guys over 50 can't see like we used to but we ain't going to quit shooting.

    beemer

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Baron von Trollwhack's Avatar
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    I'm shooting an 1888 Commission rifle altered to sporter, but with the original barrel, jacket, pushfeed bolt and no Mauser clip foolishness or "S" throat.

    As it turns out, my Lyman M die in 30 short works just fine to bell the case mouth about 3/4 of the gas check height to start bullets sized at .323 after a near case F/L in a Redding die. I'm at 36 grains of Varget with the RCBS 184 grain FN bullet for the .32 W Especiale and groups are running 4-5 " @ 100 yards. No pressure signs, leading, or blowback. More work still to come. BvT
    Every lawbreaker we allow into our nation, or tolerate in our citizen population leads to the further escalation of law breaking of all kinds and acceptance of evil.
    Since almost all aspects of our cultural existence are LIBERAL in most states, this means that the nation is on a trajectory to dissolution by the burden of toleration and acceptance of LAWBREAKING as a norm, a trajectory back to the dark ages of history.

    BvT

  5. #25
    Boolit Mold
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    Cast Bullets in 8mm Mauser

    First, many thanks for the suggestions to resolve the problems I experienced with cast bullet loads for the 8mm Mauser. They are very much appreciated and add to my knowledge base for this cartridge.

    In response to my post in August and my original post to this thread, I was finally able to get to the range and test several 8mm Mauser loads. For what it’s worth, here are the results.

    The following is common for all loads:

    Rifle used: Yugo M-48
    Case: Winchester
    Primer: Winchester WLR
    Bullet: Cast with gas check, 175 gr., sized to .324
    Dies Used: RCBS X-dies for full length case sizing and reloading

    Velocities listed below are the average of ten shots as measured with a Shooting Chrony.

    Powder Charge Velocity

    2400 16 gr. 1532.02 fps

    2400 17 gr. 1549.76 fps

    2400 18 gr. 1644.54 fps

    IMR 4227 21 gr. 1707.83 fps

    IMR 4227 22 gr. 1737.86 fps

    No blowback of gas was experienced with any of the above loads. For the 16 gr. of 2400, there was a small amount of black residue on the neck of the case, but none was present on any of the other loads. At best, for all loads accuracy at 100 yards was what I consider to be bad or worse, even for my 69-year-old eyesight and open military sites on the rifle. The IMR 4227 loads did tend to show some grouping of shots but nothing I would want to show to anyone else. Overall, the accuracy for all loads was a disappointment.

    So, what does all of the above prove? It tells me I’ve probably got to do some more “tinkering” with the powder charge and the bullet. I tend to believe that a little higher velocity would help improve accuracy and will try 20 gr. and 21 gr. of the 2400. Would so like to try a slightly larger diameter bullet…maybe sized to about .325…if I can find a reasonably priced mold. I will also test the loads in my Turkish Mauser as well as the Yugo M-48.

    I’m not giving up on cast bullets in the 8mm Mauser, just need to try a few more different combinations. I’ve had very good results using cast bullets in the MN 91/30 and Finn M-39, the Swiss K-31, and even my .30-06 Columbian Mauser. I’ll be happy to share any improved results.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    I'd also recommend that you try either IMR-3031 or Reloder 7, with that bullet. A bit slower powder may well provide the answer - it did for my M48. I can't remember where IMR-4227 falls in comparison, although I know that it is slower than 2400. You might even give IMR-4064 a "shot", so to speak. I use 28.0 grains of 4064, with about .4 grains of cotton wool filler, behind a 170 grain paper-patched cast bullet, as my standard load now. Not quite 2000 fps and accuracy of 1.5" or less at 100 yards, is the result. I tried the gas-checked 175 grain, .324" Lee bullet before....and it was definitely the best of the gas-checked bullets I tried. I got excellent results with that bullet, with about 30-31 grains of the IMR-3031.

    Regardless, keep trying. Eventually, you'll find a combination that works well - and it is very much worth the effort, in my opinion.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master


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    Years ago a friend inheirated an old 8mm and wanted to shoot it. We found some
    cheap military ammo and shot it with a string "for safety". Seemed OK so then he asked if it would shoot cast boolits.I borrowed a 200grn mold from a friend and put them on top of 17grns of Unique. Amazing accuracy and would make a jackrabbit "loose it togetherness'. No recoil and low noise. More fun than should be allowed by law. Big smiles were on all the faces in the area......
    Lewis AKA Wright Brothers Gunsmiths

    "Illegitimus non carborundum"

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  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    About a year ago I bought a pig in a poke at a gun show. It was a Turk Mauser buried in enough cosmoline that you could barely tell what it was. It took a while to get it cleaned up and I see that I am still not quite finished. Most of the blueing was worn off but no rust. Lots of dings in the stock but beautiful grain in what I suspect is Circassian Walnut. The priliminary inspection of the barrel indicated that it was ruined. Ah well! I decided to clean it out and maybe it could be enticed to shoot jacketed bullets. I cleaned for days. Lots of Hoppes #9 and dozens of patches. Sweets! Many more patches and brass brushing. After the first few hours I'm begin ning to see rifling. Much more cleaning during the next several days. Rifling is getting deeper. Darn! I don't think that this thing has ever been cleaned. Rifling looks sharp! Grooves very dark and look like a deep hole. Finally got pixxed and wrapped a bit of 0000 steel wool around a wore out bore brush and ran it through the bore a few times. Looks better.
    Made a hundred cases from TW 52 brass. Lee, 175 grain boolit of acww. Tumble lubed with Lee lube. Installed Hornaday chex and ran through a .323 Lee sizer to crimp them. Relubed with the full strength Lee Liquid. Seated them over 14.0 grains of Red Dot. Hmm! Not impressed. Very dirty bore but no leading. Next load was the same but used 14.0 grains of 2400. Nasty and filthy! Eight inch group at 25 yards. No leading! I was afraid of leading with the bullet sized this small but it is the only 8mm sizer that I have at the moment. Soooo! I next stuffed drier lint into the case until it is halfway up the neck. The boolit compresses it slightly. This is with the 14.0 grains of 2400 load. Beautiful group! After firing eighty rounds of this load the interior of the barrel shines lie a mirror and appears to be new.
    There is lots of experimenting to do with this rifle. The main problem is that I have such a hard time seeing the sights. I think that I will fire up the mill and make a scope adapter similar to the one that Dutchman is making. His "Top Hat" style. Sinple but ingenius!
    Neil

  9. #29
    Boolit Master at Heaven's Range 2010

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    I use 13 gr red dot which seems to work in military rifles.I use the Lee bullet with gas check. my springfield loves it.bullet touches each other at 100 yrds.
    WILDCATT

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy MaxJon's Avatar
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    I pick up a Turkish 8mm tomorrow, can't wait to cast for it! I think the 8mm ballistics suit cast bullets very well!
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master hc18flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullbarrel033 View Post
    I pick up a Turkish 8mm tomorrow, can't wait to cast for it! I think the 8mm ballistics suit cast bullets very well!
    Check out the upcoming Group buy for the Mihec 8mm Hunter. I have a very similar Accurate mold that shoots very well in my Yugo Mausers. hc18flyer

  12. #32
    Boolit Master



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    Ever since I read Ed's thread on 2400 in the military calibers, I've been playing with an 8mm using the following:

    Cases: various, including formed 30-06.
    Powder: 18 grains, 2400.
    Bullet: 214 grain Loverin style (don't remember the Lyman number).
    Primers: various.

    This combination shoots through my shortened Yugo and Gewer 98 beautifully. Accuracy is excellent and it hits like a sledge hammer. Conclusion? The 8mm is an excellent cast cartridge!
    Last edited by 3006guns; 07-02-2018 at 10:22 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master
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    This ol' thread is almost 10 years old......very nice. I have a real affinity for the Mauser milsurp bolt rifle calibers, and for the company's Africa-intended 9.3 x 62. The calibers are efficient, and in good barrels they can really shoot accurately. Specific to the 8 x 57 Mauser, as loaded for the Third Reich's using services it launched a 154 grain bullet at 2800+ FPS, so the mil-spec load gives nothing away to our 30-06. I have come close more than once to grabbing a sporting rifle chambered in 8 x 57, though I think the 30-06 is a better game rifle owing to its larger powder capacity and attendant ability to launch heavy-for-caliber bullets to higher velocities. Boiler-room capacity MATTERS--ask Roy Weatherby about that!

    I have been delighted with the work my present milsurp G98/40 has done with the Lee 8mm-175 bullet. I have no idea how many hundreds of this bullet I have launched through the rifle, and once I figure the sighting dope out for a given distance I can really make the iron sing out to 300 yards. Specific to the NCBS Long Range dinger plate @ 400 yards, things really fall apart past 300 yards. I spent a good amount of time messing with velocity increases to the Lee bullet, thinking that the bullet going trans-sonic was causing de-stabilization. That "sort of" worked, though once past 2100 FPS at the muzzle accuracy really went south up close. I changed lubes to LSS Carnauba Red, and accuracy improved--but never as good as that seen at 1550-1800 FPS. I moved away from close-at-hand range sites in July 2014 before giving the 236 grain Lee Group Buy castings a fair try-out at higher velocities with the Carnauba Red lube.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  14. #34
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    The 8x57 and I go back to 1978 when I traded a Ruger #1 22-250 for a Guild made Danzig 98 8mm with a two leaf rear sight, DST, and a Gerard variable on claw mounts. What a rifle. Three Mauser since then and finally a Tikka T3. I love the 8mm Mauser. Now I'm relearning it with poured boolits!

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    For belling rifle case mouths I found NOE's inserts for the Lee Universal unit to work really well. Only need a slight bell and the boolit sits in the case mouth well aligned. You order one thousandth smaller than what your boolits are sized to. So in the case of a .325 boolit it would be this one;

    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...vfb0d3ategqc64

    You can see the double step in the picture and this is what makes it work so nicely.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy iron brigade's Avatar
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    I currently shoot 3 mauser rifles, all 3 prefer IMR 4198 without exception. 20 grains. I have tried many other powders, none shoot as well.
    NOE 325365 is the boolit used. Drops at .326 and sized to .325.
    So strange that a $195 Turkish mauser will shoot toe to toe with a $800 1903 A3.
    Last edited by iron brigade; 04-01-2018 at 10:21 PM.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    I love it when one of my "old" milsurps groups better with cast than my friend's "magnums"

  18. #38
    Boolit Mold
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    Want to load safely for my GEW88

    I'm glad this thread is still somewhat active!
    I've been loading for about 30 years but have just started casting (loving it!).
    i've just started casting. My pistol stuff is going quite well. Moving from 45 45 10 lube to powder coating now.
    I'm also ready to start casting for my GEW88. Amberg 1890 turked. After taking it apart, I found that the barrel was replaced in the '30s although the shroud is still here.
    A little pitting in the barrel but still very bright (after I cleaned her!).Slugged bore 3x and I got .323 each time. Wood is in VERY nice shape. Not much blue but a nice patina.

    I've casted a few bullets with my Lee 175 mold using COWW. They drop at about .324 and weigh about 172 -173gr avereage. BHN (pencil test) is in 22 range for those PC'd and quenched. Aircooled are around 16.

    I see lots of yall using filler. I've seen other places use things like cream of wheat. here, its cotton wool. I guess the same as cotton balls?
    I can figure how to weigh it but for the recipe's without weights given, what do you do? I suppose filler' up to the bottom of the neck so the bullet will compress it a bit?

    trying to decide on either 2400 or unique. I've used unique before in pistols.
    Thanks for your time!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gew on table.jpg  
    Last edited by Kaiser Mike; 05-12-2018 at 02:09 PM. Reason: barrel info

  19. #39
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    iron brigade,

    I love it when a plan comes together. = My "hundred buck" Model 760, in .30-06, outshoots (that the heir to his uncle's estate didn't want to bother with) virtually every other firearm in my collection.
    (Presuming that I do my part, it makes one ragged hole in the target at 200M, using "Mexican match".)

    yours, tex

  20. #40
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    No filler is ever needed with Unique. I'm using it and Red Dot in my 8x57 with great results so far. I like the Lee boolit too.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check