How many here stick with traditional styles?

[Old Ironsights]

I have to admit these are some hot looking firearms...

But they're not Black Plastic & Stainless Flintlocks.

I think it is the whole "Whoa! That's a Flintlock?!?!" thing that attracts the attention over the inlines you posted.

Not saying the Firestorm is "better", just that IMEX it attracts more positive attention than inlines or more "traditional" wood sidelocks.

[waksupi]

the following is info from another page. I am not responsible for the content!


Here are the reported NMLRA Western Championship scores from 2005... I thought this was interesting and comes as no surprise to me whatsoever.

You will note that the "all mighty inline" that the manufactures claim to be such a good accurate hunting muzzleloader - can not even beat the following:

NOTE: 1 through 5 are shot with traditional muzzleloaders,,, while A & B are shot with inlines... These are 20 shot Aggregates also where a max score is 200-20X...


1. Flintlock Bench Championship (Agg. C)-Al Kramer 185-4X, Ira Thumma 184-2X, Charlie Brown 179-1X.

2. Women's Offhand Championship (Agg. K)-Neysa Bush 135-1X, Teri Schwindt 131-1X, Susy Larson 128-1X.

3. Benchrest Championship (Agg. M)-Charlie Brown 192-1X, Al Kramer 190-3X, Ted Sanders 180-2X.

4. Smoothbore Championship (Agg. Y)-Kirk Mathew 146, Jack Henson 140, Joe Ed McCray 139.

5. Sighted Smoothbore Championship (Agg. JJ)-Jack Henson 165-1X, Joe Ed McCray 154-1X, Glenn Benson 151-1X.

A. Inline Offhand Championship (Agg. IO)-Ron Fowler 106, Vincent Pelly 103-1X, Roger Schaefer 75.

B. Inline Bench Championship (Agg. IB)-Al Kramer 144-2X, Vincent Pelly 139-4X, Donald Lemker 136-1X.

Now with this proof before us, how can anyone continue to claim that these inlines are as accurate as the manufactures claim. Afterall, aren't these NMLRA National Shoots a "proving ground" for what muzzleloaders can do?

This is so laughable... Smoothbores with and without rear sights are smoken these inlines. It's obvious that an inline can not even be benched and out shoot a smoothbore with no rear sight.

[PatMarlin]

That's amazing.

I need to shoot my smooth bore more. I really need to do some barrel smoothing work on it also...

[Underclocked]

I think the numbers tend to show inline hunters are at an even greater disadvantage than you sidelock shooters. So inliners should get to keep the more traditional muzzleloader seasons while you sidelockers are still free to hunt the centerfire seasons.

That's the very same logic applied by many, just in reverse. And no, I don't own a cat.

[waksupi]

I believe when you look at the scores shot by Al Kramer, the figures become more interesting. Here is a guy who is an accomplished flint shooter, who cannot accomplish a better score, with the "improved" inlines. Draw your own conclusions.

[Underclocked]

My conclusion is "smoke 'em if ya got 'em"!

[PatMarlin]

Only problem I see with inlines as mentioned before is if it harms muzzleloaders hunting seasons.

I own an inline shotgun, and 2 sidelocks, plus one cat who has been my buddy for 15 years, and I don't care who knows it.. .......................................

[Old Ironsights]

I think the difference/problem is that inlines were/are not designed for "one hole" accuracy as much as "magnum power/range 'minute of deer'" accuracy.

IMO/IMEX inlines are at an extreme disadvantage when it comes to paper punching, where sidelocks can be tweaked to be much more "rounded" guns.

I would be interested to know what kind of bullet/sabot the inlines were shooting - 'cause (almost by design) they can't shoot PRB for dick.

[Underclocked]

Some of 'em do a little better than minute of deer.

[Old Ironsights]

Yeah, some can, but they will never "compete" with traditional/target guns because they really aren't designed to. They are hunting tools.

[versifier]

If they get a shooter interested in muzzle loading, that's a good thing. A good percentage will want to explore the world of front stuffers more thoroughly, and that will lead many to traditionals. They also encourage more hunters, and that's a bonus for us all, too. In this day and age, I believe we all need to be as supportive as we can of any interest in all kinds of shooting. From a newbe's perspective, if an inline seems to be more user-friendly and can be bought for what seems to him (or her) to be a reasonable price, then it's one more joining us. I don't feel that a lot of hunters are serious shooters, and a lot of serious shooters don't hunt much, but the novelty of muzzle loading can be enough to capture the imagination. After learning to experiment with propellants and all the various available kinds of projectiles, it can get someone to wondering about handloading for centerfires and how much $ can be saved. Then a look at the prices of commercial bullets can nudge one in the direction of casting, only to become a hopeless addict like the rest of us.
Anything that can draw more people into our sport/hobby/passion/addiction we should be all for, even if it doesn't float our personal boat. I shoot traditionals, but I will give nothing but encouragement to a friend or acquaintance considering an inline to be able to hunt the extra days for muzzle loader season. Likewise, the only shotgunning I generally do is when chasing birds around, but I voted for the significant cash outlay for the new clay bird pitcher at our club because the weekly trap shoots bring new people to our club. Many of them end up joining and bringing friends and family members along to get hooked, too. I am not into the big social event scene, and I shoot midweek when there are few or no other shooters, but more dues means better maintainence, more trout for the stock pond, etc. It's like the pebble at the top of the hill that becomes an avalanche. Every new shooter is another pebble, and if it's an inline that get's them started, I'll cast them a few boolits and give them some different powder to try.

[PatMarlin]

I don't feel that a lot of hunters are serious shooters, and a lot of serious shooters don't hunt much...

THAT is so true.

Another great thing about BP is no registration... A HUGE PLUS!!!.....

[Old Ironsights]

RE: versifier

You are absolutely correct. While I rarely shoot my inline any more, I keep it around as a "learner-loaner" for those skittish about setting off 4F in their face.

And I have never understood the "hunter" who will spend days/weeks in the feild prepping for the season but only break out the gun 2 weeks before to make sure it's still zero'd. (or worse, not prepare at all...)

Ya don't have to compete to shoot, but you do have to shoot to compete.

[44man]

I stay with traditional all the way because I have built my own rifles for years and have taken many, many deer with them. I use nothing but patched round balls and will go against any inline to 100 yd's and maybe even 200. I have brought home thousands of dollars in groceries from shoots. Once learned they are easier to load and shoot then the inline. My friends all shoot and hunt with inlines and they go nuts after a shot or two trying to load again without cleaning. I see them putting the ramrod against a tree to get the bullets down. No thanks, I can shoot all day without ever wiping the bore and don't lose accuracy. The inlines need the substitute black powders that cost a lot more then black so they can't be shot as much without running into a lot of money. Sabot's and Power Belts aren't cheap either.
If you look at all the facts, the inline is a pain in the ass. The only advantage is they can shoot farther, flatter. Is that what muzzle loader hunting is about?
I don't care if anyone uses them but I will never buy one.

[waksupi]

For any of you who may be in NW Montana the first weekend in August. I am sponsoring the first World Championship smoothbore matches. We may draw 30-40 people, if we are lucky. Guns must be smoothbore, flintlock, snaphaunce, or matchlock. No rear sights. Shot and ball events. Lots of people in this area are really getting into the fowlers, and trade guns. And there are people who will shoot right up to any rifle shooter, within ML ranges. I can generally finish in the top 10, shooting my trade gun in rifle matches, with maybe 180 shooters involved. These are trailwalk type shoots.

[RugerFan]

My friends all shoot and hunt with inlines and they go nuts after a shot or two trying to load again without cleaning. I see them putting the ramrod against a tree to get the bullets down. No thanks, I can shoot all day without ever wiping the bore and don't lose accuracy.....Sabot's and Power Belts aren't cheap either.

As stated earlier, I have both hawken and inline MLs and enjoy shooting and taking game with both. With the inline, I won't touch Power Belts. My .50 cal inline is just another avenue for me to shoot my own cast .429 bullets (in sabots). For me, Power Belts would just defeat the purpose of using that particular firearm.

I have the best of both worlds. The hawken for when I'm feeling old school, while the inline entertains me in an entirely different fashion.

Any loading difficulty is easily overcome. I recently hand-lapped the bore with LBT lapping compound and now use American Pioneer powder. It literally takes 2 patches (one wet and one dry) to clean after many shots.

[44man]

I have read some real horror stories about that powder. Have you had any problems with it? I am a confirmed Swiss BP user and won't change. But I read all the sites and everyone has a bad opinion of AP powder.

[Bucks Owin]

FWIW, I hate "modern" front loaders and think that they should not be allowed as "primitive weapons" as far as hunting goes. As high tone target rifles, fine, but they were made for one reason IMO, and that is to "cheat" when muzzleloader hunting season comes around....

A "muzzleloader" with a plastic stock, speedlock, shotgun primer, rangefinder scope etc etc etc is NOT a "muzzleloader"! It's a high tech black powder single shot...

Grrrr....

Dennis

[Old Ironsights]

Watch out with the "Plastic stock" thing. Wood or plastic does not a Muzzleloader make. My TC Flintlock happens to have a plastic stock (see pic above). It is in no real, material way different than a TC Hawken with a wood stock. it has no better range or ballistics than any other 1/48 gun.

Eliteisim does nothing but divide shooters and make us easier to pick off by the Antis - who no more believe we have the right to a Flintlock than an M16.

[Bucks Owin]

A "primitive weapon" does not have a plastic stock IMO....

At the range, Yea. In the woods, Nay!

JMO,

Dennis

BTW, there is nothing "eliteist" about it, I just feel that a high tech black powder single shot should not be allowed to hunt in the "primitive weapon" season.....There's really not much disadvantage to hunting with such a "muzzleloader" against a Ruger #1 except perhaps at long range (depending on calibers)...Hell, you can even load one almost as fast with a plastic "cartridge"!