22 Lovell variations

[uscra112]

He wrote articles for the American Rifleman, some of which were quite humorous. He was a devoted Stevens fan, and one of his last crusades was to get some ammo manufacturer to load a "high velocity" version of the .25 rimfire. In another he was talking about loading the .25-20 to something over 1800 fps. A scheme I took a bit farther; my first .25-20 was on a 44-1/2 action, and I had it to 1950 fps using an 85 grain jacketed softpoint. That one accounted for a few woodchucks when I lived in Michigan, until I realized that the bullets were too strong for that velocity, and would ricochet off hard ground after passing through the victim. The load and rifle were deadly accurate, though.

[brian1]

Nice to cross paths again Brian.
Also wishing uscra112 the best.
Cheers
ps Another little tidbit regarding the Lovell cartridges that eluded me was the mention, in an old issue of Cartridges of the World, that the Lovell was the first case of a wildcat being formulated out of another wildcat. It seemed to be worded that J. Francis Rabbeth had wildcatted the original 25-20 Single Shot and I found other reference to him being the "first" to wildcat a round, that being the 25-20 Single Shot. No where could I find what Rabbeth had used for the parent case. Finally it surfaced that he used a 32-25 Wesson centerfire. What a rare duck to fettle with. Frank Wesson ( Brother to the Wesson of "Smith&Wesson") made tip-up rifles largely in rimfire, but in the trailing years made a few centerfire calibers & this was one of them. I have one picture of a sample of this round and have a chart of data for his cartridges which show the matching dimensions. Now if I can only find a Wesson tip-up in 32-25 Wesson centerfire I'll have the history right to the start.... haha.

I have a couple Frank Wesson guns. One in .32RF, one in .44RF
https://military-history.fandom.com/..._Wesson_Rifles

First Type in .44RF. These are really cool. It took me awhile to figure out how to open one. It has to be in half-cock, then pull the front "trigger" and it opens:


Small Frame Pocket Rifle (10") in .32RF:

[577450]

This .223 conversion has been interesting. I have a Belgian folder chambered .257, in a pretty much straight case based on 25-20 SS at about 1.2 inches. I have been using 22R stuff I found, but whether age or pressure caused there are a few split cases . I have a lathe and this seems an interesting alternative. John

[TheCounty]

Nice Wessons Brian. As you are familiar with the ilk, have you ever seen a Wesson tip-up rifle in centerfire or referenced any details about them. What little I've found indicate Wesson made a few in 32 and 44 centerfire calibers, but I would like a bit more confirmation on what was actually produced in the way of rifles and ammo.
Cheers

[brian1]

I haven't seen a Wesson in centerfire. I'll have to keep my eyes open for one. I thought I had a rifle that would shoot centerfire or rimfire, and I finally found it. It's a Marlin Ballard #2. I'm not clear exactly what caliber it is. I did a bunch of research on it a couple years ago, then moved on to other projects. I fired some .32-20 in it, with some signs of excessive headspace. Supposedly, it is supposed to be a smaller 32, like 32 Ballard, but the chamber is too large for that.

[TheCounty]

Hey uscra112. Any chance you know what American rifle issues those were in?
Pushing something like the 25-20SS is what makes me think you would be an awesome neighbor.
Brian as well.
Cheers

[Bent Ramrod]

One of Tedmon’s articles is in the August 1931 American Rifleman. It’s titled “Small Deer Rifles.”

Tedmon was called “The Godfather of Stevens Rifles.” He was scrounging and rebuilding Stevens wrecks in the Favorite, 44 and (0)44-1/2 Ideal configurations all through the Twenties and Thirties. I was sufficiently inspired to cobble my 414 wreck/parts collection into a Tedmon-style rebuild. Not an original, and would be called a butcher job these days, but it looks very “period” for the cash-strapped Depression.

The similarity between the shapes of the .22 WCF and the .25-20 SS engendered a relatively brief period of souping-up of the latter shell’s loadings to produce a .25-20 “express” version on the order of the .22 Hornet. For some reason, it didn’t catch on, even though the Hornet, of course, became enormously popular. Probably the problem was that the hotted-up .25-20 was neither fish nor fowl: still too small for big game and way overkill for small game. For varmints, the distinction between blowing a large hole through them with the Hornet and blowing them to bits with the .25-20 Express was less important than the range advantage the same case necked to .22 would offer.

Other articles covering the development are “An Ideal Vermin Combination,” by Hilary McInturff, Am. Rifleman Sept. 1932; “The .25-20 Single Shot Express,” by David A. Drew, Jr., Am. Rifleman April 1932, and “A Slow-Twist .25-20 Single Shot,” by W. F. Vickery, Am. Rifleman October 1935. Vickery chambered one of those “underbore-size” .25 Stevens RF barrels to .25-20 SS and converted the action to centerfire. He indicated that the shooting gave up nothing to the standard groove diameter and twist centerfire barrels.

I did a little messing around with these loads, since I have a can of DuPont 1204 powder and the 60-gr Hornady FP, the Arizona Bullet Co. 60-gr PSP and the Winchester 60-gr HP. The last bullet, especially, shot really well, but since everything but the primers was obsolete by then, it was pretty much an exercise in nostalgia.

[TheCounty]

Thanks Bent Ramrod. I found a site online with digital copies & just finished the article. Tedmon's style of writing is of a type I really enjoy. He certainly seemed progressive on his liking of a scoped rifle. Article also reminded me of years back when shooting prairie dogs with my brother in Alberta. What a hoot, both with open sites snapshooting and scoped .22s. Now that I've found a site with the American Rifleman copies I'm going to be doing a bit more reading the next few days, improving my familiarity with the 25-20SS. Good timing with a snow storm coming in.
Cheers

[uscra112]

Be sure to check the "Dope Bag" columns in those.

[Reg]

Could I ask what was the site that had the old Rifleman’s on it.
Looks like some good reading in general. There were a lot of interesting things
going on back then.

[uscra112]

To think of all the time and money I spent collecting almost every issue from Number One to 1980, and now here they are online.

But then I also read every one from cover to cover, so there's that.

Remembering that upstate New York and Ontario were the two hotbeds of Lovell activity in its' heyday.

[Bent Ramrod]

Those old Riflemans were great, all right. Even the advertisements are interesting now. Lots of amateurs experimenting with guns and loads, with the occasional product review and the even more occasional political notice.

The only periodicals that have that mix now are the specialty quarterlies like BPCR News, The Single Shot Journal and The ARTCA Journal. And, of course, Internet sites like this one.

[uscra112]

Yeah, it was a genuine technical publication in those days. Reading it was almost a graduate course in small arms technology.

Bought a keepsake last week. A set of steel Ideal tong tool handles actually marked 2RLOVELL.

[TheCounty]

For Reg & others interested, found American Rifleman digitally at : https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.ed...l?id=amerrifle
Also found article in January 1936 issue by Donaldson on the origins of the 25-20SS . Confirmed the .32 Wesson parent (and Lovell's grandparent...haha)
Yup, I'm burrowing into those old American Rifleman issues like a badger into a sand pile. Whooot Whoot !!!
Cheers

[uscra112]

You're going to become the Tom Rowe of the .22 Lovell.

You ARE going to publish a coffee-table book, aren't you?

[uscra112]

BTW you have to watch out for Donaldson. A man of my acquaintance who knew him well said to me that concerning his own accomplishments he was the greatest liar since Elmer Keith.

[uscra112]

You have the books by Landis and F.C.Ness of course. Ness wrote the Dope Bag column for about a decade, and was a big booster of the .22-3000 Lovell.

[Reg]

For Reg & others interested, found American Rifleman digitally at : https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.ed...l?id=amerrifle
Also found article in January 1936 issue by Donaldson on the origins of the 25-20SS . Confirmed the .32 Wesson parent (and Lovell's grandparent...haha)
Yup, I'm burrowing into those old American Rifleman issues like a badger into a sand pile. Whooot Whoot !!!
Cheers

Wow ! Now that is a goldmine! Thank you. Have it bookmarked!

[TheCounty]

A coffee table book ! Thanks for your confidence in me uscra112. The CD compilation, as informal as it is may be, is likely my magnum opus.
About 20 years back I happened across a super deal on 2 small frame Martinis. One a Model 12 bull barrel target converted to .22WMR and the other a Model 8 in Lovell 2R.
This got me on the search. Then I happened to contact a gentleman in Alaska by the name of Micheal Petrov. He sent me a copy of the 22-3000 booklet by Smith along with a few other Lovell tidbits. The idea of gathering as much Lovell info as I could into a bit of easy reference & share with others he felt would be worthwhile & that is what I've tried to do haphazardly over the years. I was saddened to hear of Mr. Petrov's passing a few years back, as he was top notch nice & of the "pay it forward" concept in that he did not want monetary compensation for small favors but that those receiving pass it on to others. I was raised similarly by my father & feel that there is a bit of karma attached to this. Therein is a brief summary of my background on this topic. Not a professional for sure.
Need to pick up Ness' book yet, but quite familiar with the dope bag from the issues of American Rifleman I do have.
I may try to summarize in writing the method to convert .223 to Lovell and add it to the CD. Still spending too much time reading the e-copies of AR at the moment ..haha.
That & sorting/refurbishing/reloading the cases I recently aquired.
Cheers

[uscra112]

Alibris lists two copies of the Ness book.

https://www.alibris.com/booksearch?m...s.x=27&hs.y=23

Only one copy of Landis, and it's "spendy" as they say in Minnisoter.

https://www.alibris.com/booksearch?m...s.x=27&hs.y=25