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Thread: H2400 vs a2400

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Still don't believe you actually believe one can tell the difference in 100 fps. WHy, used to work years ago for a company that paid incentive on production. An operator would get on their machine and run it for a few minutes and then would be yelling my machine is running slow. I would time it and it would be running fast. I would put it on the prescribed time by time study people and may have slowed it down as much as five seconds on a 30 second cycle and tell them I set it on time. They thought I sped it up to put it on time when I actually slowed it down to put it on time. They were perfectly content in their mind. No more problems.
    Very few shots on game is under the EXACT same circumstances. Was the deer or whatever the game excited, was one calm, was one not, was the shot exactly in the same place on the last 3 or 4 deer taken, was the deer the same size, was the game at the exact same range? Too many variables with a few head of game taken to make a concrete decision on small amounts of velocity.
    Now you can make that decision if you want and you have. I will accept that as the operator in the aforementioned scenario made on their machine cycle.

    BTW, funny how our minds work. That operator thought they would be making more money after I SPED up to put it on time. But alas I slowed it down to put on the approved cycle time.

    Enough said.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 08-25-2017 at 08:44 AM.

  2. #42
    Boolit Mold
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    OK, OK. I now am the proud owner of a bottle of 2400 RIFLE powder. Is this the OLD stuff and should it still be good.??? Times are HARD AND i WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A LOAD FOR 357 WITH A 158 swc plated X treem bullets.
    Does anyone have a data sheet for this load.???

  3. #43
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Old H2400 or new Alliant 2400 I would consider, based on actual pressure measurement, 14.5 gr to be a maximum load under any 158 cast bullet, lubed, plated or PC'd in the 357 magnum cartridge.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Another excellent example of why some are "confused" regarding the burning rate of Alliant 2400 under a 44 "Keith" bullet; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-Three-Keiths

    The classic 22 gr load is safe under only one of those "Keith" bullets. Under the other two 22 gr of 2400 would indeed be "hot".
    Sounds to me like the “different” claim got started by people who destroyed their guns and refused to admit they could have done something wrong.

  5. #45
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    The only thing I’ve seen changed are the powder charges!

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtarm View Post
    Sounds to me like the “different” claim got started by people who destroyed their guns and refused to admit they could have done something wrong.
    Happens more often than many believe as the tendency is to want to blame something other than "pilot error"........
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Happens more often than many believe as the tendency is to want to blame something other than "pilot error"........
    Yup.

    Remember the old “Light charge of Bullseye will detonate” myth?

    Undoubtedly double charges over .38 wadcutters, but people believed it.

  8. #48
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    ddixie884's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtroll View Post
    OK, OK. I now am the proud owner of a bottle of 2400 RIFLE powder. Is this the OLD stuff and should it still be good.??? Times are HARD AND i WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A LOAD FOR 357 WITH A 158 swc plated X treem bullets.
    Does anyone have a data sheet for this load.???
    I would try about 13gr to start. You may work up or not as you please........
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    A man that volunteers at my range worked at Alliant's high explosive division at the time 2400 was becoming cleaner burning. He told me the chemical engineers working on 2400 admitted the burn rate changed, although they didn't change the burn rate of Unique when they cleaned that powder up.
    Look at new and old reloading manuals. The new powder charge to match Elmer's velocity is now 20 gr 2400, no longer 10% more.

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    When Hercules stopped making powder and Alliant took over, these was all kinds of stuff floating around about changes. Thing have settled down and Larry is 100% right.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    My hands noticed a difference when my shiny cardboard container of 2400 was replaced by a black plastic bottle. Old vs. new. My SBH's recoil became hard to control with 21 gr of the newer 2400.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Murphy's Avatar
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    The one email I wish I had saved.

    Back when 2400 went from Hercules to Alliant, it took about 18-24 months before the internet spread the word that the NEW 2400 is hotter. One very well known writer who is still very active writing for magazines and writing books, even swore it was hotter. I decided to just email the fine folks at Hercules/Alliant. A couple of days later I received a reply stating emphatically that the formula for 2400 had not been changed, period. I've been using 2400 for 40 years like many others, and can't tell one bit of difference.

    I've been through half a dozen (if not more) internet providers since then. I just wish I had been using an online email (yahoo,hotmail...etc) at the time. Instead, I was using Microsoft Outlook and a lot of my old emails are long, long gone.

    Murphy
    If I should depart this life while defending those who cannot defend themselves, then I have died the most honorable of deaths. Marc R. Murphy '2006'.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    but then I didn't buy the 44 magnums to not be 44 magnums......

    Larry Gibson
    That's Awesome!!! LOL!!!!

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    What Blackwater says. I got no instruments to measure difference but shooting several thousand 44s since 60s I’ve noticed no difference. When I was shooting a lot a 44mag I was shooting the Kieth bullet. The last 20 years I have shot 240 Jhp for deer with same load of 2400.

  15. #55
    Boolit Buddy
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    That's what I loved (back in the day) about 2400. I loaded the same 20.0 grains behind a Hornady 240 gr. XTP for my Ruger SBH (12" bbl.) as I did my Lever Action Rifle. I used the same load under a 165 grain cast boolit in my .308 at 200 and 300 yards with my bolt action rifle in competition. Ironically, the same sight settings for my 200 yard load were only one click off my 600 yard loads with Sierra 168 gr Match Kings. Good times back then.

  16. #56
    Boolit Bub
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    I shoot IHMSA silhouette, using Ruger 10.5" barrel Super Blackhawk. I use the RCBS silhouette bullet which is supposed to drop out of the mold at 245 grains. Using wheel weights, it comes out of my mold at a little over 250 grains. I chose a load out of the Lyman book, 20 grains. Over my Oehler chrono, it comes out of that Rugers barrel at average of 1496 fps! I would not want to try 22 grains in my Ruger. This powder was Alliant, not the old Hercules. I think the new stuff is HOTTER than the old Hercules formula, based on my chronograph results.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    kreuzlover--Larry Gibson dispelled the myth several years ago, that the new 2400 from Alliant is "hotter" than the old Hercules 2400 by performing tests on each powder with pressure testing equipment. He found that the difference was no more than one would see from normal lot to lot variations. Why the myth continues is because new folks don't do the research or ask the right people.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  18. #58
    Interestingly my opinion is that because Alliant changed the writing on the can for selling appeal, folks just assumed it was hotter. What writing? The part where they changed the writing from a rifle powder to a handgun magnum powder.

    Actually Hercules changed the name from a rifle powder to just simply a smokeless powder but then Alliant completely changed it to handgun magnum powder.

    Attachment 282265 Attachment 282266

    Pressures are pressures and if the formula changes enough to change pressures, it will be noted.

    If you think forums are scared of being shut down because of "Issues", just think what the powder manufactures are thinking!!!

  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuz View Post
    kreuzlover--Larry Gibson dispelled the myth several years ago, that the new 2400 from Alliant is "hotter" than the old Hercules 2400 by performing tests on each powder with pressure testing equipment. He found that the difference was no more than one would see from normal lot to lot variations.
    I've seen a LOT of web guru posts claiming some old powder has been changed to make it hotter and therefore it's supposed to be foolish to use the old loading data for the "new" powder. But I've never heard or read a single comment about why any powder maker would sneekly change a canister powder burn rate without warning or reason! Lordy, that would be legal liability stupid and powder makers are not stupid!

    IF our propellent makers wish to market a new powder they simply give it a new name and sell it for what it is. They sure won't trick their customers into buying something different - and therefore possibly dangerous - under an old established name! But, I suppose as long as inflated web gurus can find gullible people to frighten it won't stop.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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