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Thread: Thinking about getting a gunsmithing degree/certificate/???

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Theres one thing most over look when considering becoming a gunsmith or Machinist / tradesman. Its not just the schooling and or degrees you have. It also takes years of exceptional work to build the reputation and gain the experience needed to make top pay. In the gunsmith trade it also takes years to build up the following and to get the needed word of mouth and recommendations from clients. If your going to try it with out support you are in for long days. Start at 6:00 work on projects in the shop till 9 or so. Then customers and order parts materials and plan schedule work, then maybe some "interrupted time" back in the shop. Some jobs may require most of the morning in set up.

    When I started out in the tool and die trade I was amazed at the "old guys" sat at their bench didnt look like they were doing much but drinking coffee but at the end of the day they had a big pile of chips and parts to turn in.

  2. #62
    Boolit Master

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    I did not go to gunsmith school but I have had a few work for me that have. I have worked in several trades in my life that helped me learn mechanical skills, welding and machine work. I enjoyed working with metal so much that I got a welder and lathe for my little home shop as a hobby. When I was in my 40s I went into business with a couple younger guys building and repairing logging equipment. A few years of that and I was ready to do something ells, partners decided they didn't need me anymore. I had always thought of making a rifling machine so set out to build one with a little help from Jerry Cunningham (Orion Rifle Barrel ). He gave me a truck load of reject barrels to play with. After playing at rifling for a while I decided to put an add in Gunlist. My first customer wanted me to copy a pre war model 70 Winchester barrel from a blank. I had to buy a small amount of tooling to make the front sight ramp ramp which is integral with the barrel. Customer was pleased with the work and flooded me with more. I have been gunsmithing for over 20 years now and have customers across the country.
    There are several types of gunsmiths, some are parts changers, some only work on certain models and some will try to fix anything that comes in the door. Gunsmith school will give the basics but then you need experience which only comes with doing the job. I my case I had experience in welding and machine work before I took on gunsmithing which started as a hobby for me.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master Doughty's Avatar
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    Another thing that is needed is "talent." There are lots of ballplayers that would like to play "professional" ball. Most don't make it. Some people have talent, some don't.
    AKA "Old Vic"
    "I am a great believer in powder-burning".
    --Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman

  4. #64
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post
    I did not go to gunsmith school but I have had a few work for me that have. I have worked in several trades in my life that helped me learn mechanical skills, welding and machine work. I enjoyed working with metal so much that I got a welder and lathe for my little home shop as a hobby. When I was in my 40s I went into business with a couple younger guys building and repairing logging equipment. A few years of that and I was ready to do something ells, partners decided they didn't need me anymore. I had always thought of making a rifling machine so set out to build one with a little help from Jerry Cunningham (Orion Rifle Barrel ). He gave me a truck load of reject barrels to play with. After playing at rifling for a while I decided to put an add in Gunlist. My first customer wanted me to copy a pre war model 70 Winchester barrel from a blank. I had to buy a small amount of tooling to make the front sight ramp ramp which is integral with the barrel. Customer was pleased with the work and flooded me with more. I have been gunsmithing for over 20 years now and have customers across the country.
    There are several types of gunsmiths, some are parts changers, some only work on certain models and some will try to fix anything that comes in the door. Gunsmith school will give the basics but then you need experience which only comes with doing the job. I my case I had experience in welding and machine work before I took on gunsmithing which started as a hobby for me.
    Is Jerry still making barrels? He's local here, but I haven't seen him in years.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  5. #65
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Is Jerry still making barrels? He's local here, but I haven't seen him in years.
    Jerry sold off his machines years ago. Jim Carpenter has a few and has been making barrels for about 20 years. I get drilled blanks from him sometimes and a barrel or two once in a while. Before I got into the business I bought quite a few barrels from Jerry. His shop was in two old railroad cars.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by zymguy View Post
    I will start my first day of classes Monday. Only one class ( metallurgy) relates to gunsmithing, but I’ll be happy to have started.
    Good Luck! It's great to have goals, reach them, and make new goals. My advice for what little it's worth...keep moving forward. I went to community college for machining/tool and die. Was fortunate to have one instructor who loved firearms and opened my eyes to keep me involved enough to finish. Long story short 15+yrs of machining and good Managers/Leaders taking night classes I've not only completed by B.S. but a Masters degree and a love for all things Quality. My point is I would have never imagined being were I am today and do not know what life change is next. Keep doing what you love, learn, and pushing lead down range. If it wasn't for this forum and my love of shooting I would have given up many years ago.

    By the way, met one of my best friends who is still machining in our company that introduced me to the BW. We have taken many trips over the years. Like all of us you may not realize but at least once a week if not more I would change seats with you in a heart beat to live in Ely! I've always wondered what it would be like to live, work & reside in your area. I am very jealous to say the least. Only second favorite thing to do as I only get up there once a year. Back when I was younger I did 2-3 trips for a few yrs.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    One more day of class and spring break begins, I'm 8 weeks of 16 through ( this semester ) and its going well.

  8. #68
    Boolit Master roverboy's Avatar
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    Glad it's going good for you. I got a friend who is a graduate of Colorado school.
    Mrs. Hogwallop up and R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

  9. #69
    Boolit Buddy
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    Anybody, well most anybody can be a “gunsmith” but being a “damned good gunsmith” is a horse of a different color. Do you have a bit of “OCD” in your blood? IMO if one does “not” have have a bit of it he can be a “gunsmith”, but a long way from “a damned good gunsmith”. You will need to be willing to do the books and run it as a business. Don’t promise on what you cannot deliver. I’d be more inclined to go to a school that teaches machining with manual tools. Lathes, mills, surface grinder. Maybe you can do this in night school. Don’t tell them though you want to be a gunsmith. Learn a lot of the different operations on a lathe, turning, drilling, reaming, boring, threading etc. on the mill learn, basic milling, picking up edges, boring, use of sine bar, indexing/dividing head work, etc. Surface grinder the same learn all you can. Metallurgy too. It would be IMO best to specialize in the part you enjoy and can do the best. Stock work and checkering requires the least capital outlay. Can you see the “rifle stock” inside of a blank of wood and chip and file away all the wood that is not the “rifle stock”?.
    I never thought of a guy that did general gun repair as a “gunsmith” just a parts changer with a set of needle files. If you become a “damned good gunsmith” gun nuts will beat a path to your door and you will turn away work you do not want to do by the very fact that your prices are high. I’m a hard ass but that’s my honest thoughts.
    Cheers Richard

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy
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    PS,
    Throw metrology into the mix too.
    You want to protect your family and yourself from litigation. There are people out there that sue at the drop of a hat, some that sue for a living and some that sue because they are the dregs of humanity and just mean.
    Find a lawyer who enjoys guns and shooting, he may wind up being a customer, treat him like a friend and he may well become a friend. He will set up the companies etc. Second, shop for a loan officer, try to find one that is a gun nut too, even look at small banks. Set up two corporations, the first is the company that does the advertising, rents the space ( if it is your garage the first company rents space from you). The first company holds the FFL, business name and does the gun work. The first company owns basically nothing...if you are going to get sued they will sue the first company and not you personally, (see “corporate veil” below).The second company is a leasing company, it owns all of your tools, machinery, company car etc. That company is normally not touched and if you HAVE to fold the first company you still control the assets of the second. Ask your lawyer or Google the meaning of “piercing the corporate veil”.
    Above all, be honest even if it hurts, don’t promise on what you can’t deliver, don’t take on more work than you can handle, make sure you don’t fix one part of the firearm and screw up or somehow damage another part. Don’t buy cheap tools, there not. Get an accountant and don’t try to defraud the IRS, run afoul of the IRS and all the above is moot. They can or will take your house and company one and two. Take every deduction you legally can.
    Do R&D. Shoot in competition in the field you enjoy, you will expose yourself (as company one) and your work to others. The better you shoot the more the competition will want you to do their gun work. All the costs of competing will be tax deductible.
    Did I say don’t mess with the IRS. Keep good records. Don’t co mingle funds, your families bank account is strictly separate from the two companies and don’t co mingle funds between company one and two.
    I wish you the best! “Illegitimi non Carborundum”.
    Cheers Richard
    Last edited by flatsguide; 04-27-2021 at 07:50 AM.

  11. #71
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    Along with flatsguide's comments, do not cheap out on the formation of the corporations or go with what a buddy told you. Get the advice of a CPA that specializes in that field- ask around for recommendations. There will be minimum costs ever year with corporations in their tax filings, etc.. Know that up front and know it is a recurring business expense. If your initial setup is not done correctly and in accordance with your attorney's advice, you are asking for trouble. Take the advice and don't be cheap up front. Seen it bite to many down the road. Was a CPA for over 30 years before retirement. Good luck and ask others in the industry but do your own research before deciding on something. Learn more that way.
    Ron

  12. #72
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Thank you guys.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #73
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    spring semester grades are in

    BUSN 1120 BUSN Computer Application 3.00 A
    MATH 1256 Mathematical Thinking 3.00 C
    WELD 1570 01 Metallurgy 1.00 A
    MTTP 1241 01 Intro to CAD 3.00 B
    WELD 1501 01 Intro to Welding 3.00 A
    Grade Point Average (GPA)
    Level Attempted Credits Earned Credits Grade Points GPA
    Undergraduate / Term 13.00 13.00 43.00 3.30

  14. #74
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    Congrats, nice job. Keep it up.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    First day of actual gunsmith school 0800 tomorrow (Mon) "rifle design and function" Looking forward to it ! Like opening morning.
    Was a little weird leaving my house and driving some 4 hours south. Lots of wildfire, I left a message with my closest neighbor that all humans and pets are out of the house , taped my phone number in the window. If we get evacuated itd be for the smoke, Im not too worried about actually burning down the house. (well, from the glenwood fire anyway )

  16. #76
    Boolit Buddy
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    Enjoy! BTW as a young man I used to canoe the Boundary Waters out of Ely. Had a nice wood canvas Old Town then later a Kevlar Bell Magic, Bell Canadienne and a Wee non nah Sundowner.
    Cheers Richard

  17. #77
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    Got several friends that taught and graduated at the Colorado school. Most are gone today. It is kind of odd to me how they spent years accumulating knowledge, only to go quickly. I sometimes wonder if the chemicals, contribute to their early demise, especially the guys that spent hours ove hot blue salts and soft soldered/ leaded ribs and barrels.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy
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    Rapier, do you recall the names of the fellows from the Colorado school, the “Colorado School of Trades”. I graduated there in the late ‘sixties. I’m still around and I’m 83...only the good die young. Jerry Fisher a CSof Trades graduate just past away at 92?
    Cheers Richard

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check