Hollow point nose punch agony

[truckjohn]

So...

What is the secret to getting hollow point nose punches to release?

On my CH4D 45 ACP die set... I have HP and Flat nose ejector punches.
The FP nose ejects just fine, as would be expected.

The HP nose punch grabs the bullet like no one's business. Pliers do a fine job of breaking the punch death grip, but don't do much for the bullet's dimensions and finish.

After several hours of draw polishing, I couldn't get there.... so I decided to experiment with a new nose punch.

I worked extra-hard to achieve my personal best ever surface finish on the steel. Big taper, concentric, no tool marks, etc.

Started out with a heavier taper than the CH4D punch. As you would predict, without any draw polishing, I had achieved a nearly perfect death grip on the bullet.

3 hours of polishing later, it was better, but was time to break out the Prussian Blue to see what was sticking.

Another hour of draw polishing and blue-ing later, and it ejects with an itty bitty drop of motor oil on the nose and a light "Snap" when you pull the ejector punch back up in the die to break it loose.

So... for any old hands, what is the trick to easy Hollow Point Nose punch release? I doubt commercial die makers could spare 4 hours of draw polishing and Prussian blue on a $40 nose punch.

Is this a case when you really need an itty-bitty toolpost grinder to straighten things out?

So how do the big boys do it? I am guessing that 1st off... those big name high volume nose punches (like Speer Gold Dots) have an optical polish on them. I would use a secondary ejector punch in the middle of the Hollow Point Nose. It would have to be an itty bitty thing -- like 1/16" diameter or such. It would be easy with some hydraulics or air poppets or something. Durability would be a question, though.

Either way, I have a small handful of 0.4525" 200g Swaged Grease Groove RNHP, that used to be Swaged Grease groove SWC's that used to be Home cast H&G 68's

Thanks for any suggestions you could offer.

John

[Swagerman]

On my CH4D 45 ACP die set... I have HP and Flat nose ejector punches.
The FP nose ejects just fine, as would be expected.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you've got too much ogive on the bullets nose curve?

The flat point ejector punches can some times be a problem, try the conical point, or simi-conical point with small meplat point might work for you.

How deep you punch a HP is also a determining factor in how well it performs...too deep can be difficult. I usually don't punch any deeper than 1/4 to 1/8 of an inch...but it is possible to go a little deeper with conical HP points.

Good luck, and let us know how you are doing with it.

Jim

[NoDakJak]

I have two of the Herters Nine Ton press;s and several sets of dies. I have given up on the hollowpoints in 38 caliber for the same reason. The nose is swaged so tight onto the punch that I finally broke it trying to get it released. Am thinking about taking the remaining punch and grinding it to a cone. Maybe that will release. Neil

[truckjohn]

So, it sounds like deep hollow points are trouble.

I guess I shouldn't feel so bad then...

My HP nose is 5/16" deep, but it has a pretty healthy taper on it.
The hollowpoint cone tip is approximately 50-degrees, with a 0.240" base and 0.030" flat on the nose.

to NoDakJak....
I personally wouldn't grind on it -- unless you can do professional jig grinding work.

Draw polish with a soft India stone and plenty of oil. (Draw polish is scraping in the direction of the pull, not roundy-roundy.)

I ended up doing rounds of draw polishing, bluing, and swaging.... The left over blue on the punch tells you where the "Lock" is at. Then polish off the shiny spots, starting at the nose and working towards the base.

It takes *forever* but does work.

I did learn that a teeny drip of oil/bullet lube on each bullet nose helps a *ton*

My current ejection technique is to push the bullet about 1/4" back down out of the die, pull up on the Ejector. Hear the *Pop* and then push the rest of the way down.

I decided to stop while I am ahead, but could probably get it better than it currently is...... maybe.

Thanks

John

[badgeredd]

So, it sounds like deep hollow points are trouble.

I guess I shouldn't feel so bad then...

My HP nose is 5/16" deep, but it has a pretty healthy taper on it.
The hollowpoint cone tip is approximately 50-degrees, with a 0.240" base and 0.030" flat on the nose.

to NoDakJak....
I personally wouldn't grind on it -- unless you can do professional jig grinding work.

Draw polish with a soft India stone and plenty of oil. (Draw polish is scraping in the direction of the pull, not roundy-roundy.)

I ended up doing rounds of draw polishing, bluing, and swaging.... The left over blue on the punch tells you where the "Lock" is at. Then polish off the shiny spots, starting at the nose and working towards the base.

It takes *forever* but does work.

I did learn that a teeny drip of oil/bullet lube on each bullet nose helps a *ton*

My current ejection technique is to push the bullet about 1/4" back down out of the die, pull up on the Ejector. Hear the *Pop* and then push the rest of the way down.

I decided to stop while I am ahead, but could probably get it better than it currently is...... maybe.

Thanks

John

John,
I made a hollow point punch for my C-H 357/38 swaging dies. WHAT I found in doing it though was to keep the punch cavity .150" or less and have a lot of taper, mine is about 20 degress included. Also I found that one needs to leave a bit of sholder around the point, again mine is about .025 per side. Hope this helps you. I've been using my HP nose pretty much continuously for most of 20 years.
Edd

[yarro]

Try using imperial sizing die wax on the nose punch.

-Yarro

[johnly]

I was also thinking that Drop-out might also work.

John