So, I have 45 Raptor on the brain...

[oneofsix]

Why? I dunno, just do...
That said, I need a little input from the gurus on whether or not a SMLE action would be strong enough. I originally bought bubba'd No1 Mark 3(?) that's been "improved" to make a 7.62x39 conversion. Bore is a sewer pipe, so I had planned to replace the barrel anyway. I've seen Enfields used for 45-70 conversions, but I'd like to run some heavy 45s.

So, keep the Enfield as a x39 conversion and search for a Mauser action, or something else?

[colchester]

303 British has max pressure 49,000 psi 45 Raptor/ 460 s&w are max 65,000 psi

[firebyprolong]

With that kind of pressure difference I myself would not do it. I am unfamiliar with the two cartridges you mentioned so I don't know the op pressures so I might be out of line. But if it's much higher than the 303 I'd be very careful. The # 3 is not the strongest action in the world as is. It's your rifle and your choice but stick with pressures at or below and you shouldn't have an issue. I can tell you that at 308 pressures in a marginal action the stretch is impressive enough you will not want it in front of your face. I've built a couple in 45acp and one in30-30 that have worked out well. Was also gonna build one in 30-40 krag till 30-40 became impossible to find. For higher pressure builds I'd look out for a # 4 action but they have limits as well. I will tell you that saeco has a couple of actions already opened up for a 45-70 if your interested. Good luck with the project, enfield are just too neat not to play with.

[longbow]

I know you seem to have a desire for 45 Raptor but nothing wrong with .45-70 full length or cut down (like .45-60), .444 Marlin or .444 rimless all of which you can control your load and pressure without worrying about a higher than acceptable pressure round one day finding its way into the chamber.

Factory .45-70 is loaded to BP pressures so perfectly safe in the Enfield and can be beefed up substantially yet still be safe. .444 Marlin is also within acceptable pressure limits for the Enfield actions and .444 rimless being a wildcat is totally controllable on you part as far as pressure is concerned. I was seriously toying with the .444 Marlin conversion but decided that due to .444 being expensive and somewhat rare these days if I decide to go ahead I would go with .45-70 or .444 rimless (more likely choice).

I used to have a Siamese Mauser I had converted to .45-70 and really liked it. Wish I still had it. I shot everything from collar button boolits to the Lyman 457125 500 gr. in it. It was a fun gun and so should a converted Enfield.

The Enfield won't take the pressure the Mauser will but from my experience, I suspect your shoulder will be the limiting factor. I think the Enfield will provide enough recoil to get your attention and within safe pressure limits. Not sure how heavy a boolit the 45 Raptor will digest well but if under 400 grs. recoil tends to be much less than with the heavy weights. Boolit weights of up to about 350 grs. should be quite pleasant to shoot with mild to moderate loads from any one of these cartridges.

[oneofsix]

Thanks for replying, I pretty much figured the Enfield wasn't a good choice so it's going back in the project pile as a x39 conversion.
Been looking at AR10 lowers, probably have to scratch this itch by building one up.

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[Moleman-]

Made the 44 version of the raptor for an AR10. Recoil is a lot nicer in it than a bolt gun.

[justashooter]

enfields as big bores are best done in 444 marlin, with bullets up to 350 grains available.
444 rimless is not as good as the enfield is set up for rims same size as 444, not same size as 30-06., and headspaces on 444 rimless is by case mouth, so problematic.

fal magazines.

[Harter66]

I put one together on a 95 Mauser .
The majority of load data for standard weights in the 460 is under 50k . If you make the shift to rifle powders to use the bbl length pressures drop into 30s . The 45 ACP bbl kit from Rhinland Arms has a 16" twist and will handle bullets WAY heavier than I would care to shoot in the 5.5# Carbine . I have a cracked stock at the moment but the 350s were becoming unpleasant as the groups closed approaching 1700 fps . Assorted 250-265 gr were pleasant on up to 2000 fps .
I'm not sure I'd build 1 on an Enfield though .

[longbow]

If you are bent on the 45 Raptor then the Enfield is likely not a good choice.

As for the rimless 444, I haven't checked but I'm betting a different extractor would work there. Again, no personal experience but I cannot see why head spacing on the case mouth is an issue and from what I have read (if its on the internet it must be true...) it is not a problem and certainly isn't for many other cartridges including the 45 Raptor and 450 Bushmaster.

I have seen an Enfield in .458 x 2" which is rimless although somewhat larger diameter than the .30-06 head size. I am not likely to have the toy money to do this in the near future anyway so purley dreaming and speculation on my part and not what the OP is looking for so I'll leave that there.

Looking at the 45 Raptor it appears to be essentially the same as 444 Rimless except in .45 caliber. The Raptor appears to be a 450 Bushmaster improved. So since I am not familiar with AR10 details, if both the 450 Bushmaster and 45 Raptor will work on an AR10 platform why go with the 450 Bushmaster?

Sorry, I guess this is thread drift going on here. I am just looking for some education.

In a bolt gun the Raptor certainly makes more sense... to me anyway. In fact, now I am a little more intrigued by the 45 Raptor.

[oneofsix]

I've pretty much decided to use the Enfield for something else. Not looking to build on the AR10, but a bolt gun in 45 Raptor has my attention currently.
The search will continue. ☺

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[exile]

Harter66,

Can you direct me to where I could find data using rifle powders in the .45 Raptor if fired from a 20" barrel? Thanks.

exile

[Harter66]

Not really any approved data sources . Seems like my work was based on doubling the difference between Trapdoor and strong actions for 45-70 . Knowing that both are well under 460 nominal data . I referred to 338 Federal also and looked at max loads for 454 with Unique . Shake , stir , pick a powder in the middle of the 338 and 45-70 and rattle your fillings . 250-265 gr was easy to achieve XVR 10" MV and a on up to 2000 fps . I read shortly after the 460s release about guys sticking it in TCs with 20" barrels and getting 2400 fps plus .......
I shot a 350 in 308 brass blown straight to 1900 fps at which point it hadn't been a whole lot of fun for about 125 fps . 16.5" barrel . Dancing around 40kpsi I'd guess .

Slow down the powder , use a chronograph , and your brain . There is 360 and 395 grain jacketed data listed for H & IMR 4198 and 4227 . I just took a quick look at the Reloaders Assistant app . It's there . The first data for H4198 is at a Sierra 325 gr JSP .
I don't remember that data being available 5 years ago when I was working it .

As a note to the OP .
Alexandria arms did an AR 10 in a rebated rim 45-70 .......after careful comparison it is essentially a blown out /necked up 284 Win case sized in a 45-70 sizer ....... In further detail that translates , I think if I'm not off in a ditch , to either Rigby or H&H rimless mag cases and by association the WSSM cases blown out trimmed to 2.1" run in a 45-70 die . In the Enfield action the modern lever gun data should be safe .

[exile]

Thanks Harter66, for your reply. It may be a good excuse to finally buy a chronograph.

exile.