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Thread: Loading & shooting the Montenegrin Gasser Model 1870/74 11.75x36MM revolver

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    98

    Loading & shooting the Montenegrin Gasser Model 1870/74 11.75x36MM revolver

    The original Gasser revolver was made in 1870 for the Austro-Hungarian cavalry and took the same round as their Fruwirth carbine. I guess this did not work out too well as the carbine load was too heavy for the revolvers and tended to blow them up. Ultimately they reduced the length of the cartridge and also improved the steel on the frame. This ugly monster was cutting edge at the time. Think about it, a double action metallic cartridge military revolver in 1870. At some point King Nicholas I of Montenegro declared that all male citizens were part of the militia and had both the right and responsibility to own a Gasser style revolver. This caused a bit of a rush on these revolvers and a number of European countries hastily manufactured Gasser type revolvers. Most notably Belgium. The revolver pictured is a Belgian "copy" of a Gasser revolver. Many of these guns became status symbols for their owners, wealthy individuals commissioned revolvers with engraving, fancy grips and even inset jewels.

    As always my first instinct is to want to shoot the old smoke pole. The Montenegrin Gasser was once featured in an article entitled " The Top Five Guns That You Cannot Afford to Shoot". Now that is a challenge if I have ever heard one. Traditionally they have a groove diameter of .445, mine slugged at .442. Some have reported .449 as quite common. Some have also reported firing the .45 Colt brass as is with a .451 soft lead bullet. Other candidates as a parent case are the 7.62X54R and the .45/70. The case length is 1.40. Supposedly if you cut a 7.62X54R case to length, reduce the rim diameter to .555 and then just size it will work. I tried a .45 Colt case and although the case fit perfectly the rim diameter and thickness were small. I was not too concerned with the diameter, but the thinness of the rim left a gap. I fired a couple of primers to see if it could work and although they did go bang the primers blew back out of the case because of the gap. Not having any 7.62X54R I decided to play with the .45/70.
    First step was to cut a case to the appropriate length. I used my newly acquired 2" chop saw for that purpose. Cutting the brass to just a hair over 1.40 (BTW: I love this chop saw).

    Next I annealed the case and ran it up into a .45 Colt sizing die. This pushed some brass down to the base of the case just above the rim. I then used a Dremel to grind off the excess and to reduce the diameter of the rim. Very slow work. I then used a case trimmer to get exactly 1.40" length. Pretty sloppy looking, but functional. It took 2 hours to make 5 cases.


    Next I needed a bullet. The original was a 280 - 300gr lead bullet. I had nothing close to the right diameter or weight. So I improvised. I took a 200 gr. soft lead heeled bullet that I use in my 11mm French Ordnance Revolver. See below.

    At it's thickest diameter it is .450 and the base below tapers down to about .435. I ran the bullet into a .446 sizing die for an 11mm Mauser rifle bullet and when I measured it the diameter was .445. So I figured that the groove diameter measured at .442 and the .445 diameter at the widest part of the bullet was actually a very narrow band with a much smaller diameter above and below that band. Thought it might work. I figured that the soft lead narrow band would shave off pretty easily when it met the .442 bore. Close enough for government work (LOL!)
    OK, so now I had 5 pieces of brass and I sized 5 bullets. Time to load. I ran the case up into the .45 Colt sizing die again and seated a large magnum rifle primer. I poured 30 grs, (by weight) of Goex 2F black powder down an 18" drop tube into the case and compressed it slightly with a dowel. Next was a .030 vegetable fiber wad, a grease cookie (no lube grooves on the bullet) and another wad. I then seated the bullet just up to the widest portion using the .45 Colt seating die. Finally I used a Lee factory crimp die to hold the bullet in. The beauty of black powder is that you fill the case with a slight compression so the bullet sits right on top of the powder (or wad) so the undersized bullet does not just fall down into the case like it would with smokeless powder. Below is the final result.


    Woo hoo, now it is range time. I hit the range with some amount of trepidation. Praying for boom with no ka-boom. I squeezed off my 5 rounds with the gun, my digits and face still intact. To quote the late great Marty Robbins in his song Mr. Shorty "the .44 spoke, and it said lead and smoke and 17" of flame"!!!!
    Now I would love to tell you about the stellar results and the beautiful group that I shot. But here is the truth. I put a 12" shoot n c target on a 3' X 4' piece of new cardboard at about 25 feet. The target and the cardboard all escaped injury. I did not hit a blessed thing. I did get that almost 150 year old revolver to go bang again and had a great time getting there. This one may just get relegated to the safe as a curiosity to show people. Or I may invest in some better brass and the right bullet mold. I am not sure.

    By the way since I wrote this post initially I have acquired a 300 gr mold from Accurate Molds that Tom made for me. I also now have a Sherline 4000 mini lathe which helps me to make perfect brass for this old thumper. I still will not shoot this particular revolver much as I feel it is poorly made. I am in the middle of acquiring a really nice Austrian made Gasser.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Outside Rolla, Missouri
    Posts
    2,170
    Goose, doing what you described is about the most fun I have handloading. How great it is to take those old pieces and put them back to work, even if for only a bit. What a wonderful read! Thank you.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

    NRA Benefactor 2008

  3. #3
    In Remembrance / Boolit Grand Master Boaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    11,571
    Good job ! Range report .
    No turning back , No turning back !

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    1
    Any developments on this? Would like to get my great grandpas running again.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    38
    If you don’t mind case bulge after fire form, I would try 7.62x54r brass. I use 54r to make brass for my Werndl carbine, which has a similar (if not same) dimension

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,606
    i like it when THE NAY SAYERS SAY IT CAN'T BE MADE FOR THE GUN. NOT EVER SO!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,606
    huntj3, I also have a Werndl carbine. and would like to shoot it. would you please tell me what you do to make the RUSSIAN brass work in it.? bullet size, powder, smokeless? thanking you. toot.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,606
    I also have a RENINGTON RB, NAVAL CADET, in 50/ 45. CAL. that I made two cases out of. one from a 348, WIN. and one from an 8M/M LEBEL. it too k me 3 hours to do it. I used 20 grs. of 3fg. and a 50/70, cast lead bullet. but I figured it out and GOT ER DONE!.I will keep the two of them with the gun, and shoot it twice and reload them as needed. PS, I could not find them reformed any where, maybe I was not looking in the rite place?

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    38
    First, I took a chamber cast and determined it was most likely the 11x42 as it had more of a slight straight taper chamber with groove dia at .448. Since I’m running smokeless and wanting to fill the throat, I opted to make the original 11x36 carbine brass with a 250 grain .452 boolit.

    I used a pipe cutter to trim the brass to just over 36mm(all I had before getting a chop saw). Next, I used the Lee 45 colt powder thru expander die then used the 45 colt seater. After fire forming I only slightly neck size using the 45 colt carbide die and repeat the previous.

    You may use 45 colt or 454 casull load data at your discretion as they are similar dimensions.

    I used the dimensions listed on http://old.municion.org/ for reference.

    Good luck!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check