Alternatives to Corbin Die$ ???

[bruce drake]

swaging is not for everybody, just like casting is not for everybody.
it is a commitment to actually get things finished, and the only satisfaction you get is not until you completely throw away your carefully crafted product.
there is something to be said about putting in the time to manipulate a bullet to make it perform like you want it to in the field.
varmint shooting requires some manipulations to the bullet as much as big game hunting does.
but usually in the opposite direction.
only you can't go too far in either direction or you lose either accuracy or terminal performance.

I wish I could figure out how Hornady gets that interlock ring in their jackets.
but there is a satisfaction in sitting down at the bench and shooting 10 of your completely hand crafted from start to finish bullets.[from making the ingots from crud junk lead alloy all the way through to the final step of seating that bullet in a case you manipulated to best fit your rifle]
and they are all touching each other when you fire that last one.
and they are all using less than 1/2 of that little white circle down there at 100yds.
or when that Buck just folds up at the shot.
or when you win the longest piece in the impromptu varmint part launching contest.

you might not get to say it to anyone very often but you do get to say YES,, I MADE THAT.

Now that explains it perfectly.

[Wolftracker]

The same principle of making and selling swage dies applies to selling bullets. What are your time, skill, materials and effort worth? To make money selling bullets, one has to either make something very specialized that people will pay a lot for or, make a lot of something people want to buy for a reasonable price that is still of high quality. Bullets are expendable, dies are not! Not to mention the cost of ITAR if you bother with it. I chose to not sell my bullets, though I have and maintain a Class 6 FFL. With my Corbin equipment, I can make very accurate and effective bullets but haven't found the energy (I'm in my 60's) or the formula to crank out enough of the right product to make a profit. I'm still working on it though. If I come up with that formula and they get rid of some ridiculous regulation I just might start selling some! In the mean time, I have a lot of fun inventing and shooting my own bullets for less than the cost of a 4 wheeler or a couple of other toys I can think of.

[dverna]

R5R,

The difference I see between casting and swaging is the vast majority of shooters will never recoup the cost of swaging bullets. Whereas casting offers significant savings.

Don Verna

[dtknowles]

R5R,

The difference I see between casting and swaging is the vast majority of shooters will never recoup the cost of swaging bullets. Whereas casting offers significant savings.

Don Verna

I see one way that Swaging could pay for itself. Get on the Waiting list for Dies, press and what ever. Take delivery, Swage a few tens of thousands of bullets and the sell the Dies, press and what ever for a profit.

Tim

[paul h]

When I started out reloading and casting I started selling some cast bullets on the side. After a few years I did a ballpark estimate of how much time I was putting into smelting ingots, casting bullets and lube sizing. I figured at best I was getting minimum wage for my efforts. Which got me to thinking, why am I busting my but making McDonald wages so my buddies can get a discount on cast bullets vs. the commercial makers?

I haven't dived into swaging the same way I did reloading and casting. The only way I could half way see it making sense is if I planned to just shoot one gun and one bullet and shoot them a lot. But I load for several different handguns and rifles and I'd never amortize the cost of the equipment.

I have been around enough precision machine work and small scale job shop work to understand that when you tighten the tolerances and make parts in very small batches or one of you dramatically increase the price. It's like comparing a $20 mass produced chair from China to a hand built chair from exotic wood by a master craftsman that costs $2000.

The only way I'd consider swaging is as a natural extension of this hobby and to satisfy an experimental itch of saying well what if... and that's justification enough. The only way to answer the question and the enjoyment of involved their in.

[footpetaljones]

swaging is not for everybody, just like casting is not for everybody.
it is a commitment to actually get things finished, and the only satisfaction you get is not until you completely throw away your carefully crafted product.
there is something to be said about putting in the time to manipulate a bullet to make it perform like you want it to in the field.
varmint shooting requires some manipulations to the bullet as much as big game hunting does.
but usually in the opposite direction.
only you can't go too far in either direction or you lose either accuracy or terminal performance.

I wish I could figure out how Hornady gets that interlock ring in their jackets.
but there is a satisfaction in sitting down at the bench and shooting 10 of your completely hand crafted from start to finish bullets.[from making the ingots from crud junk lead alloy all the way through to the final step of seating that bullet in a case you manipulated to best fit your rifle]
and they are all touching each other when you fire that last one.
and they are all using less than 1/2 of that little white circle down there at 100yds.
or when that Buck just folds up at the shot.
or when you win the longest piece in the impromptu varmint part launching contest.

you might not get to say it to anyone very often but you do get to say YES,, I MADE THAT.

With a rotary indexer that has a fixed die on it that the bullets are pressed into. Corbins has one: http://www.bulletswage.com/pcm-2.htm

Interestingly, it's the same process companies use to thread bolts fast enough that they can be sold for $0.40.

[ncbearman]

I haven't dived into swaging the same way I did reloading and casting. The only way I could half way see it making sense is if I planned to just shoot one gun and one bullet and shoot them a lot. But I load for several different handguns and rifles and I'd never amortize the cost of the equipment.

This was my thinking. I too have many calibers I load for. BUT….I'm a .45 guy. I have the Ruger convertible, WWII Colt bring back and well hopefully for Christmas a lever action chambered in .45 Colt. So I bought the ChD swage dies for .45's. I'm able to swage j words from .40 cases and I found a deal for .578 jackets good enough to sell half the quantity and keep the other half for free. I have "lifetime" supply of .45 swage material. Just gotta find that lever action thats waiting out there for me. I'm not concerned about ROI when it comes to reloading/swaging. The way I see it I'm funding my sanity.

[Faret]

Thats a cannelure. The interlock ring is on the inside of the jacket with a smooth outside.

[runfiverun]

the cannelure helps but just isn't the same thing.
it is fun to be at the range and have someone look at my sierra jacket bullets with the cannelure on them and have them do a double take though.


IMO you never recoup the cost of anything shooting related.
a mold, lead, primers, brass, powder for certain, all of it is consumed as you go along.
when I got my first 308 die set up I put the first bullet I made up on the shelf.
about 6-8 months later the wife hinted she wanted something nice for her birthday and I went and handed her that bullet.
she asked what that was all about.
I told her it was the only $1500 dollar bullet I owned, and now it was hers.
she was not amused.
6,000 bullets later and I am down to them costing only about 35% more than an average factory hunting bullet.
it's a hobby, and hobby's cost money for the most part [what don't anymore]
I guess I could have just bought a couple of rifles/shotguns/revolvers and a large truck load of ammo for all of them.
and I'd have just about the same amount invested as I have in tooling for making and loading my own stuff.
but my knowledge base for how they all work would sure be a whole lot less.

[Faret]

the cannelure helps but just isn't the same thing.
it is fun to be at the range and have someone look at my sierra jacket bullets with the cannelure on them and have them do a double take though.


IMO you never recoup the cost of anything shooting related.
a mold, lead, primers, brass, powder for certain, all of it is consumed as you go along.
when I got my first 308 die set up I put the first bullet I made up on the shelf.
about 6-8 months later the wife hinted she wanted something nice for her birthday and I went and handed her that bullet.
she asked what that was all about.
I told her it was the only $1500 dollar bullet I owned, and now it was hers.
she was not amused.
6,000 bullets later and I am down to them costing only about 35% more than an average factory hunting bullet.
it's a hobby, and hobby's cost money for the most part [what don't anymore]
I guess I could have just bought a couple of rifles/shotguns/revolvers and a large truck load of ammo for all of them.
and I'd have just about the same amount invested as I have in tooling for making and loading my own stuff.
but my knowledge base for how they all work would sure be a whole lot less.

Well said.

[just bill]

There is a guy who goes by mannyca and has quite a few videos on swaging bullets with a combination of different types of rifle reloading dies, however not as convenient and consistent quality as swaging dies but doable and capable if putting the fear in the heart of paper.

[runfiverun]

I'm pretty sure Manny is a member here.

[PAT303]

You never save money casting,reloading or swaging.You just shoot more. Pat

[luober]

hey country gent,
i think don rorschach died about 7 years ago. i had a set of his 30cal carbide die for many years and they were truly a work of machinists art.

[BulletFactory]

.OK what I think my issue was is that I had assumed that once the building was paid for and the C&C Machines and lathes were paid for, that the only real costs to the diemaker was on the materials themselves.I stand corrected.

my apologies to those who are offended.

I still want to try to make some of the stuff however I will more than likely buying some of this equipment from some of these Dyemakers such as Larry Blackman Corbin and BT sniper.

I have received a reply from Larry Blackman, mr. Corbin, and still waiting for BT sniper.

[country gent]

I knew he had health issues when I was talking to him. A parachuting accident I think. He was a great guy to talk to. Alot of information there.

[R.Ph. 380]

.OK what I think my issue was is that I had assumed that once the building was paid for and the C&C Machines and lathes were paid for, that the only real costs to the diemaker was on the materials themselves.I stand corrected.

my apologies to those who are offended.

I still want to try to make some of the stuff however I will more than likely buying some of this equipment from some of these Dyemakers such as Larry Blackman Corbin and BT sniper.

I have received a reply from Larry Blackman, mr. Corbin, and still waiting for BT sniper.

Brian is a full time Stay At Home Dad, raising 2 younger girls and being a full time machinist. He may be a little later replying but he will get back to you. He is also something of a perfectionist.

Bill

[BulletFactory]

Thanks I thought I kind of put him off

[mckenziedrums]

His prices are in the vendor forum. He doesn't do discounts outside of an occasional sale.

[seppos]

Interlock band in the bullet cup:
First you need a jacket that has thicker jacket wall in the bottom of the cup
then a punch that has close fit to the mouth part of the cup with thinner wall.
When you put the cup the the core swage die and adjust the punch a bit deeper than the mouth section goes, the punch presses the copper towards the bottom of the cup. As it only could go downwards, it forms a shoulder inside the cup.. Interlock type of ring of copper inside the cup that locks the core in place .

S

swaging is not for everybody, just like casting is not for everybody.
it is a commitment to actually get things finished, and the only satisfaction you get is not until you completely throw away your carefully crafted product.
there is something to be said about putting in the time to manipulate a bullet to make it perform like you want it to in the field.
varmint shooting requires some manipulations to the bullet as much as big game hunting does.
but usually in the opposite direction.
only you can't go too far in either direction or you lose either accuracy or terminal performance.

I wish I could figure out how Hornady gets that interlock ring in their jackets.
but there is a satisfaction in sitting down at the bench and shooting 10 of your completely hand crafted from start to finish bullets.[from making the ingots from crud junk lead alloy all the way through to the final step of seating that bullet in a case you manipulated to best fit your rifle]
and they are all touching each other when you fire that last one.
and they are all using less than 1/2 of that little white circle down there at 100yds.
or when that Buck just folds up at the shot.
or when you win the longest piece in the impromptu varmint part launching contest.

you might not get to say it to anyone very often but you do get to say YES,, I MADE THAT.