What happened to the 7mm Mauser?

[HABCAN]

Pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester, Douglas premium bbl, 7x57. Best kill, +14" antelope buck @ 565 yds. (witnessed), which earned it that beautiful custom fit fiddlebacked walnut stock.

Then there's the Brazilian 7x57 '98 I 'built' with a Bell and Carlson stock, Timney trigger, etc..............


No, you can't have them.

[bruce drake]

It also sports a 30 caliber AR15-stlye compensator on the end of the barrel that has been added since this photo was taken...I call it my M7 Heretic... and here is a photo of the 30-06 and 308 winchester clips in comparison to my 7x57 loaded clip (center with 140gr Remington Core-lokts and 38.5gr of IMR4895)

[tdoyka]

Pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester, Douglas premium bbl, 7x57. Best kill, +14" antelope buck @ 565 yds. (witnessed), which earned it that beautiful custom fit fiddlebacked walnut stock.

Then there's the Brazilian 7x57 '98 I 'built' with a Bell and Carlson stock, Timney trigger, etc..............


No, you can't have them.

you gotta luv them douglas premium!!!



sorry. i only have 1 picture.

[Multigunner]

I'm still wondering what happened to the .280 Remington AKA 7mm Express.

The commercially available 7X57 ammo is seldom loaded up to its full potential due to the many older 7mm rifles still in use.
Had the 7X57 first appeared along with the model 98 action it would probably have been developed a lot better as a high velocity sporting cartridge.
DWM once marketed a 7X57 cartridge that delivered a 154gr bullet at 2,900+ FPS, but it proved too hot for the older small ring rifles, especially in the warmer climes where the 7mm saw the most use as a military and sporting cartridge.

[Lagamor]

These are the treads that keep me coming back to this sight.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm still wondering what happened to the .280 Remington AKA 7mm Express.

The commercially available 7X57 ammo is seldom loaded up to its full potential due to the many older 7mm rifles still in use.
Had the 7X57 first appeared along with the model 98 action it would probably have been developed a lot better as a high velocity sporting cartridge.
DWM once marketed a 7X57 cartridge that delivered a 154gr bullet at 2,900+ FPS, but it proved too hot for the older small ring rifles, especially in the warmer climes where the 7mm saw the most use as a military and sporting cartridge.

/\Whole lot of truth to this /\

The 7mm Mauser had the bad fortune of being rather early to the game. In our litigious society the ammunition companies are unwilling to take the risk of making cartridges that are safe in some actions but not all of the actions. Handloaders can compensate for that practice but shooters that don't handload are at the mercy of the commercial ammo companies. It's similar to the quandary that 44 Special users find themselves in.

Cartridges like the 7mm-08 and the 7mm Remington Magnum expand on the duties of the 7mm offerings. The 7mm-08 functions in a short action (a huge plus in my book) and is based on the excellent .308 Winchester case. The 7mm Rem Mag takes the 7mm to levels that the 7 x57 cannot reach. However, I agree that had the 7mm Mauser been developed alongside the strong Mauser 98 action, we would likely see the 7 x 57 still being chambered in new rifles (and at higher pressures). Thus are the fates of history.


As for the .280 Remington / 7mm Express - it is a good idea but finds itself in a market dominated by shooters that have little understanding of ballistics who often make purchasing decisions based solely on marketing. It also falls too close to the 270 Winchester for most shooters to see the differences. In a world where the "ought six" is still sold on reputation and name alone, the 280 Remington just didn't stand out enough.

[30CalTy]

I have a Winchester Model 70 Lightweight in 7x57. I bought it new back in 1986 when I was 17. Great rifle..

Got mine that same year at Effinger's in NJ. I was torn between the 7x57 and a 7mm08. They also had a 257 Roberts, but I want to say that was a Remington. Ended up with the Featherweight 7x57 because I liked the stock better, plus at the time, the 7mm Mauser was one of those "you'll always be able to find ammo for it" calibers...

It's been a fantastic rifle; shoots the Speer TNT and the 140gr GameKing into tight little wads. And the Hornady Factory loads (LightMagnum and now the Superperfomance) have always shoot excellent and to the same point as my 140gr handloads.

I think the short action 7mm-08 was a large part of it's lack of popularity today. People see it as the equivalent in a smaller package. So they go that way, or on the other end, the 7mmMag.

[fatnhappy]

Just for fun I started looking for a new rifle chambered in 7mm Mauser (7 x 57). The only new production rifle I could find in that chambering was the Ruger #1 and even that was a Lipsey special run, which is a LOT of money.

OK, I know that the ballistics of the fine old 7mm Mauser can be bested by newer designs but that's not the point. The cartridge has an incredible history, has the demand become so low that manufacturers have abandoned it?
Did the .308 Win and 7mm-08 kill it off ?

You and me both. I've been casually looking. I couldn't believe the 7 x 57 wasn't even listed in sako rifles. WTH over?
Sure I have milsurp and the 7-08 but I'd really like a modern 7mm mauser in stainless for a hunting rifle. Sakes alive, Kimber is chambering the roberts and the .280 ackley express yet can't find a 7mm mauser reamer?

I'm really kicking myself for letting go of my winchester 70 featherweight in the 90s.

[blixen]

I just put money down on a Ruger M77 7x57 (tang safety). I'll be picking it up in the next month or so. I've got a Spanish x57 sporter that shoots 139gr jackets well (2" at 100), but the .291 bore makes it ungood with cast.

I plan on shooting cast-only through the Ruger. Any suggestions on molds? I plan on starting with the Lee 140gr soupcan because, why not? Then I'll consider NOE's selection of molds. I think the Ruger is a 1/9.5" twist, but I've got to confirm.

An experience or guidance appreciated.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Then there's the Brazilian 7x57 '98 I 'built' with a Bell and Carlson stock, Timney trigger, etc..............

Thurlow Craig, my favourite author on shooting, fishing, animal behaviour and South American revolutions, said that the earliest Brazilian Mausers, the long rifles made by Loeuwe, were better than the later locally made ones. But an original barrel would often be bad, since there was a belief that it was only worthwhile cleaning the outside, which people would see. It was also held that accuracy would suffer if you cleaned it with rage made from women's clothing. There is no telling how long the effect would last.

[Petrol & Powder]

................

I think the short action 7mm-08 was a large part of it's lack of popularity today. People see it as the equivalent in a smaller package. So they go that way, or on the other end, the 7mmMag.

I completely agree /\
The 7mm-08 is on one end of the spectrum and the 7mm Rem Mag is on the other. And to be perfectly clear- I think the 7mm-08 is a great cartridge and the short action is a plus; I just wish the 7 x 57 was a little more mainstream these days.

[sharps4590]

Surely I am not the only one who has observed that a lot of classic, perfectly adequate but OLD cartridges are snubbed by both the manufacturer's and those less informed. The list would be as long as my leg, not that I'm long legged but in a small font that's a lot of cartridges.... One could drive himself to distraction trying to figure out why a cartridge was introduced other than it's "new and improved". New, perhaps. Improved? According to what? Technically speaking one could date the 6mm Rem. to before WWI and the 280, in the form of the 7 X 64 Brenneke, to 1917. Advances in propellants is what made them shoot to higher velocities at lower pressures. The case design was already old. Nothing to it and nothing will become of it. It is merely a pet peeve of mine that when some new cartridge hits the market and is praised as being the "newest and best" there is probably a 99% chance that it's already been done, is far from new and performance barely enhanced, if at all. My 9 X 71 Peterlongo pre-dates the 35 Whelen and will eat up the Whelen. None of that is to say any of the "new" cartridges are bad, heck no they aren't!!! Trouble is, if such it can be called, is that "new" sells. What Grand dad used 80 years ago is far from new....and just as far from being ineffective or inadequate.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

People like to invent things, and inventing a new cartridge is a whole lot easier than inventing a new gun, or part of one. It sells magazines and websites too. But people forget that we need a new cartridge a little when we are choosing a rifle - sometimes very little - but we need it a lot when we already have one. It is easy to keep making cases of the .30-06 family, say, for cylindrical brass will be made as long as guns are. But a cartridge which requires special brass-drawing facilities for just one or two infrequently purchased cases, can leave your rifle orphaned very easily.

[texasnative46]

Multigunner,

More to the point, the 7x57 need NOT be "loaded up to its potential", i.e., HOT to be extremely deadly on big game. = Thee original 173 grain FMJ 7mm bullet was/is A KILLER & successfully used on Cape Buffalo/rhino/hippo/gaur/elephant by many a hunter, including the just famous W.D.M. "Karamoja" Bell.
(Fwiw, in 1968 when I was the Camp Ranger for a BSA council's properties, I had to "remove" a feral/"wild" bull that was "charging people"/damaging vehicles/buildings & had no other rifle than my Model of 1893 Mauser & OLD "surplus FMJ ammo". - I shot him through the chest at about 50M & the bull collapsed about 20M away. = We butchered the bull, "converted him to hamburger meat" & that year we served a LOT of bull meat at the dining hall.)

yours, tex

[Harter66]

Some how many of the inadequate old cartridges hang on , the Krag is obscure yet the 303 and 30-30 are doing a booming business , so much for low intensity straight taper long necks being on a dusty forgotten shelf . The 45-70 and 45 Colts celebrated 143 yr and there are probably as many arms being made today as ever in their history. The 375 H&H is still on the lines and what kind of a place would the world be without the 30-06' 110 yr and counting.

In the last 3 yr I accidentally found more 32 Remington than 257 Roberts on purpose. I struggled to find suitable brass for a 264 Win mag for several years now it's on the shelf . I have enough 1x to probably to life the bbl and only have 2x brass for the next guy .
I must have seen 25 threads about Savage 325/340 guns in 30-30 in the last 2-3 months .
Personally I have a place for the 7x57 ,but then I have a soft spot for 45kpsi bad boys that perform outside of their perception.
New powders and ways to use them can make amazing things happen . Pointy bullets in lever guns , a 30-30 being a 200 yd 1k ft-lb cartridge . I have 45 Colts load with a 350 gr bullet that runs 1200 fps below Colts pressure in 16-20" bbls . Unheard of 20 yr ago every day shelf items today . What has to happen is that people have to ask dealers for things like 7x57 or 275 Rigby and hustle the bbl makers for bbl next thing you know there's a Classic run made of 700 BDLs in the Savage clan .
If there's market demand they will build them .
Do you see a lot of Browning Left hand A Bolts ? A friend of mine has a short mag ..........1 of 14 made in the last 3 yr . The demand is out here . It just has to make its way to an important desk .

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, the .244 H&H Magnum was perhaps the most obscenely overbore cartridge ever to be marketed by a major rifle company, and gave dreadful erosion with some doubt about whether it would quite equal the claimed velocity. But I know of someone experimenting with modern powders some years ago, who found he could exceed factory velocity with less erosion.

[fatnhappy]

I just put money down on a Ruger M77 7x57 (tang safety). I'll be picking it up in the next month or so. I've got a Spanish x57 sporter that shoots 139gr jackets well (2" at 100), but the .291 bore makes it ungood with cast.

I plan on shooting cast-only through the Ruger. Any suggestions on molds? I plan on starting with the Lee 140gr soupcan because, why not? Then I'll consider NOE's selection of molds. I think the Ruger is a 1/9.5" twist, but I've got to confirm.

An experience or guidance appreciated.

My tang safety 7-08 is a bell ringer. The trigger on a tang safety 77 can be made into a thing of joy pretty easily. I think you'll be pleased.

I've putzed around with a number of 7mm moulds. IMHO, The best of the best for putting together a hunting load is the 7mm hunter from NOE. Alternatively I suggest the similarly designed 168 grain RCBS.

[texasnative46]

The NOE 284170 mold is a "penetrator"/KILLER that will likely do anything that a MUCH more expensive factory-loaded 173 grain JHP in 7x57mm on game from WT up to moose will do.

just my opinion, tex