Trying to identify a cartridge

[hp246]

I'm trying to identify a cartridge. I know pictures are worth a thousand words, and if I could post a photo I would. I will do the best I can to describe it. To my eye, am thinking it is a .38 acp. The brass case is maybe 1/16 of an inch longer than a .380 case. I'm thinking it may have been a military cartridge as there is no manufacture or caliber stamped on the rimless case. Stamped into the base are four ". Each one would be on each point of the compass. the number 5 is stamped on one side of the primer and the number three on the opposite side of the primer, so that if you are looking at it, you would read the number 53. The bullet is the most interesting. I've never seen a bullet like it. The bullet is a jacketed hollow point that appears to project about 1/4- 3/8ths inch above the cartridge case. The interesting thing is that there is almost no taper to the bullet, so that the hollow point is almost the diameter of the case less the thickness of the jacket. The hollowpoint itself is fairly shallow. If I can get some photos next week, I'll try to get them up to post.

[Virginia John]

How about a picture or two and some measurements?

[TDB9901]

9 mm Makarov of some sort maybe??? Without more info, or a pic. just a WAG.

[hp246]

As stated in the orignal post, I am unable to post pics at this time. I do not have the cartridge in my possession. Was hopeful possibly the head stamp and the uniqueness of the bullet might jog some memories. I am going to try to get my hands on it next week and will post a pic and measeurements if I can. I will take a look at the Makarov.

[bouncer50]

i do not know of any military that use a hollow point.

[Earlwb]

Well there are some odd cartridges out there. The 380 ACP is 9x17.3mm. The 9x20 (9mm Browning) is one example of a odd cartridge.
The Russian 9x18 Makarov is another somewhat odd cartridge too. There is also the 9x23mm Steyr round as well. Then the 9x23mm Largo which is not interchangeable with the 9x23mm Steyr round. Israel produces the 9x21mm round. Italy also produces a 9x21mm round for civilan use as the 9mm Luger cannot be used by civilians. The 9mm Bergman and 9mm Bergman-Bayard sometimes pop up too.
There is also the 9x23mm Winchester round which is hoped to replace the .38 Super for competition use. Then there is the 9x25mm Dillon too.

The 9x19 Parabelum or Luger is the regular one you see around. The .38 Super is 9x22.86mm.

Now if your cartridge has a bottleneck to it, then it could be the .357 Sig cartridge or the 9x25 Dillion.

[WILCO]

[WILCO]

[WILCO]

5 denotes Spreewerke, Lübben, East Germany

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Well there are some odd cartridges out there. The 380 ACP is 9x17.3mm. The 9x20 (9mm Browning) is one example of a odd cartridge.
The Russian 9x18 Makarov is another somewhat odd cartridge too. There is also the 9x23mm Steyr round as well. Then the 9x23mm Largo which is not interchangeable with the 9x23mm Steyr round. Israel produces the 9x21mm round. Italy also produces a 9x21mm round for civilan use as the 9mm Luger cannot be used by civilians. The 9mm Bergman and 9mm Bergman-Bayard sometimes pop up too.
There is also the 9x23mm Winchester round which is hoped to replace the .38 Super for competition use. Then there is the 9x25mm Dillon too.

The 9x19 Parabelum or Luger is the regular one you see around. The .38 Super is 9x22.86mm.

Now if your cartridge has a bottleneck to it, then it could be the .357 Sig cartridge or the 9x25 Dillion.

Ah, you oversimplify... As usual with cartridges we now have an absurdly pointless number of them. The purpose of those only a little longer than the .380 is usually an attempt to get the maximum power available without a locked breech.

A measurement is worth a thousand pictures with cartridges, and even if the OP is unable to measure it, the knowledge of whether there seems to be any taper in the case, or whether the rim is truly the diameter of the case or it is semi-rimless, should be of some help. From the description it could even be the .38S&W revolver cartridge, which is a true rimmed case.

The bullet is extremely puzzling. There are only three reasons to use a jacketed bullet in a pistol cartridge of moderate velocity. One is compliance with international law in a military bullet, another reliable functioning in an automatic pistol, and the last the desire to avoid lead contamination on ranges. The bullet described can hardly comply with any of these. I believe it is almost certain to be a revolver bullet with an unnecessary jacket.

[Earlwb]

You are correct. Heck we haven't gotten into all of the wildcat or prototype cartridges either. Pictures and measurements would go a long way in answering the original poster's query.

[Johnch]

9 x 18 Ultra

1 mm shorter than the standard 9 x 19

I sold some brass and a box of ammo for a nice bunch of $$ a while back

I had RWS ammo and brass

Some pistols were imported into the US a number of years back

John

[hp246]

Going to try to get some pictures tomorrow.