GB on LEE PP Boolit

[duke76]

I am wanting to start Paper Patching some Boolits but my molds are all the the large side for 45-70. I know I could have a custom mold made but am a little leary about spending 150-200 on a mold and find out paper patching is not for me so I got thinking about maybe trying to get a group buy on a Lee mold made just for paper patching, I was thinking about no grease grooves around 500 grains and .450 diameter. Most likely a 2 cavity, I really dont know how this group buy thing really works but I am sure if there is enought interest here someone else can help us out with the details, I am not married to these exact dimensions so if you think they should be different please say so. So I guess this thread is basically a feeler for a paper patch .45 caliber boolit, let me know if you are interested, I think we need 25 to avoid a setup charge, thanks for looking, Todd

[dromia]

Sounds like a good idea Todd, suggest you float it on the GB forum see if there are any takers and a honcho.

I'd be interested in one.

[floodgate]

duke76:

We actually DID have a 6-cav. Group Buy ".45PP, back in 2004, run by Ed Barrett ("elbStJoeMO" - haven't seen him lately); I have one I have not yet fired up I could LOAN you to try out; you'd have to do the "LeeMenting" and provide your own handles, though. PM me to follow up.

Floodgate

[Junior1942]

I'd go for a GB two cavity from 450 to 500 grs.

[4060MAY]

bullets to try
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,97.html

Before you buy a mould

[45 2.1]

Before you do this, try it this way. Get yourself a Lyman 457191 mold and cast them out of pure lead. Use a Lee push thru sizer of 0.454" diameter and size them. Patch them with two wraps of 9 lb. onionskin which should have a thickness of 0.002". This will give you a patched diameter of about 0.462". Lube the patch with White Lightening or 55% beeswax/45% vaseline. Carefully size and bell your brass so you can seat this without tearing the patch. Seat the patched boolit to the top lube groove over your prefered powder (SR4759 works very well here). Crimp the case neck lightly into the space where the paper sucked into the grease groove, be carefull not to cut the patch. This should throat engrave the patched boolit when chambered.

[rhead]

There was a run of those on ebay last year . No grooves, .448 dia., double cavity, 515 grains and 420 grains with my alloy. Lee should still have the data for cutting the molds.
I bump mine up and then size back to .451. The metplat gets improved in this step also.

[duke76]

Guys, thanks for your suggestions so far, I have looked at the link and dont have the Lyman mold suggested in an earlier post, so by the time I would purchase the mold from lyman or buy 50 bullets from Buffalo Arms with shipping I would already be close to the price of a Lee if we would get enough orders, I will run this in the GB forum and see if we get any takers, Thanks Todd

[Don McDowell]

Duke, I'ld strongly urge you to try various paper patch bullets, before going for a mold.
Montana Bullet Works offers a fair selection, and Midway carries some offerings from Montana Precision.
Paper patching isn't as easy as shooting grease groove, and you may end up not even wanting to do it after 50 or so rounds. Buying and trying a few before going with a mold is cheaper in the long run than buying the mold and ending up with it collecting dust.

As a last resort you may want to post up a wanted ad at bpcr.net, there is a fairly large number of folks that have tried the paper patch deal and decided it wasn't for them.
I had a fella offer me some molds, and swaging dies, just for the price of driving to his house and picking them up.

[John Boy]

Duke - try here ... http://copperheadcustomswaging.com/_wsn/page3.html
They will even wrap em for an extra 5 bucks

I've shot their bullets out to 1000yds with accuracy

And if you decide PP'ing is your thing, consider the Pioneer Products adjustable mold with the original Sharps designed bullet


Fred Leeth at 937-833-2865

[wonderwolf]

DROOLLLLLL

let see what we have here, 2 bad its way too long for LEE to cut out. I would really like one of these for my sharps. How round were the noses on these? I look at the design and I think its a bottom pour but that does not make sense, and I look at the mold John Boy posted and its a partial FP. I'm just wondering why they designed it RN and make it FN?

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

well, I shot at the Quigley(again) this year and there were a lot more PP shooters. I would suggest buying Randolph Wright's book before you jump off the bridge. Original rifle ammunition and PP bullet boxes from Sharps, Remington, Winchester, et al seem to suggest (for a .458" caliber rifle) that the mould produce a bullet that mikes .440"-.442" as cast. They patch them up to .450" (bore diameter) and just seat them about .180" deep over the grease cookie and over wad card. That seats all but the .180" in the case into the rifling, and keeps fouling down over a string.

Rich

[John Boy]

Wolf, somewhere in history, original Sharps PP bullets got mixed up to be round noses. Here's a chart of PP bullets that Sharps made and published in a pamphlet. Nary a round nose to be had. Note the 2 different 2.1 flavors (powder and bullet weight). That's why I had Pioneer Products make me the adjustable mold



The round nose diagram that you posted is Dan Theodore's 'Sharps' bullet and it is 550gr. Original Sharps PP bullets for the 2.1 were 400 and 420gr. Only the 2 7/8" was 550gr

Other gun companies made round nose PP bullets. Here's some:


And here's some 45-75 caliber PP's that I made from the Pioneer mold for my '76 Winchester ...

[windrider919]

Duke76

I too would be interested in a GB for a two cavity mould ( 6 cav cast lots but are too difficult for me to handle ).

Especially if we could get two different weights like one cavity of 400gr and the other 500gr.

I see a lot of PP bullets with hollow bases but flat base shoots well too and would be OK by me.

FYI: Some PP loads I shoot with wads and ocassionally a wad will stick in the hollow base and cause a flyer which is another reason I would prefer a flat base

[wonderwolf]

John boy, thanks for the clarification and for the pictures. I've looked through lots of my old rifle books by sharpes and others and they don't talk about the bullet design so much as it was simply paper patched. I think I'll settle on an adjustable pp mold someday. Right now I'm using a rapine mold for 501gr and 405gr paper patched bullets they fall at .446 and I patch them right up to .450 for my sharps and trapdoor but the trapdoor needs a new chamber!

[BrentD]

JB, the drawing that was posted was from Paul Jones and Dick Gunn who drew from an orignal Sharps long range bullet. Gunn had a bucket of these that he gave away to folks, including myself.

If you look in Grant's first book of singleshot rifles, you will see beautiful 1:1 photos of orginal Sharps cartridges which include many round nosed bullets including the 550 long range bullet.

Brent

[John Boy]

Brent - I humblely stand corrected. Thanks for the information
And looks like I have another book to buy! ... Dixie Gun Works has the best price - Done

[wonderwolf]

...back to confusion I guess

[wonderwolf]

Whats the name of the book you refer to? is it "Still more single shot rifles"?

I'm confused as to the sharps poster then, why are fp bullets depicted?

[BrentD]

No it is "Single Shot Rifles". It was his first book.
Brent