Low Recoil Project

[TXGunNut]

My brother called me on the way back from his deer lease today. It seems he's finally talked our younger cousin into going hunting and the cousin is bringing his 10 yr old son with him. We don't know if the youngster will actually shoot a deer this year but want to be ready. The J-word hunting loads I assemble for my brother's 30-06 are a bit heavy for the little guy but I figure I can put together a load that will put a S TX deer on the ground without making the little guy gun-shy.
I'm starting out with 12 grs of Unique under a GC'd 311041 and working up from there until I find a load that shoots in my test mule/loaner rifle. I'm thinking that 180 gr boolit at 1500fps or a bit better in a 9 pound rifle will do the job on a little S TX deer just fine without much recoil if the little guy does his part.
I've been kicking around a 30-06 project for awhile, guess I might as well get it rolling. Found 20 prepped brass while I was loading some 38WCF today so the rounds came together pretty easily.

[Hick]

I haven't tried it with Unique-- but I've done something similar with my M1 at around 1500-1600 fps and the recoil is very low. The M1 is a similar weight-- so what you're looking at should work very nicely.

[runfiverun]

you'll do fine.
your in 357 mag lever gun territory but with better penetration capability.

[petroid]

My 300blk cast load replicates that exactly. 170 gr Lee FN cast of 5050 and gas checked weighs 185 gr and at 1550fps it puts them down easily inside 100 yards

[Lonegun1894]

The load you're talking about sounds like you have nothing to worry about. I just hope the kids you're working this up for is capable, cause in my experience, if you have to work at talking the father into something, and the father tends to teach the son, well, you see where I'm going with this.

[44man]

You can make things work but WHY? Kids are tough and we loved heavy recoil when young. The more the better. My love was a .300 Weatherby.
When in the army I loved the M1 but seen the Clow bothers get helmets bounced off every shot. I shot rifle grenades from my shoulder. The kid might show you how to shoot.

[popper]

I get 1450 with a 170 PB like the 041 in 30/30. 9.5 unique - little stouter than a 22LR. 11 gave me pretty flat primers but not much more recoil. I'd plan on dacron for the larger case. ES cut 1/2 when I used dacron or tipped nose up first. Still wasn't bad @ 50 without dacron. Drop @ 100 isn't bad but youngster may have trouble figuring it. Be sure to mark the lite loads - sharpie on the FP works for me.

[725]

Such a little guy, try and find a length of pull that works for him. He'll have enough to think about & overcome without trying to wrap himself around a long rifle. All your low recoil stuff sounds good to me, it's just a good fit that makes it all work so well.

[Wolfer]

When I first started shooting cast in rifles I started with a 30-06 , 311041 and 16 gr of 2400. I worked up to 20 gr before accuracy fell off. 1800 fps, very accurate and pleasnt to shoot. Would be no problem for a small 10 yr old boy.

These were so pleasant to shoot I had my doubts about going hunting with them. Deer season rolled around and caught me unprepared so I just went with my light loads. First morning a deer comes thru about 60 yds. One shot and bang flop. The exit showed good expansion without a lot of bloodshot meat. A few days later I did the same thing again. A pickup load of deer and coyotes later and I have no doubts about my loads. I can shoot faster with slower powders but see no reason to.

[dverna]

You can make things work but WHY? Kids are tough and we loved heavy recoil when young. The more the better. My love was a .300 Weatherby.
When in the army I loved the M1 but seen the Clow bothers get helmets bounced off every shot. I shot rifle grenades from my shoulder. The kid might show you how to shoot.

S squared...D squared...

Most people do not love recoil.

[TXGunNut]

I don't know the kid (or much about kids in general) but he didn't like the 30-06 with standard loads. We've been working on this cousin and his twin for years but not working too hard. I don't know why he finally came around, just glad he did. I'm a little nervous about fit but apparently it's not an issue. IIRC he's pretty lanky, will leave that up to my brother and cousin.
I like the 2400 in 30-30 and 32 Special but I think I can go a little slower with the Unique. Thinking I'd have to get up around 1800 fps to make 2400 work, I don't think that would be a problem but wanted to try the Unique load first.
Thanks for all the pointers and encouragement, I know the round is adequate but it's something I've never actually done so wanted to do a reality check and make sure I hadn't missed anything.

[44man]

Such a little guy, try and find a length of pull that works for him. He'll have enough to think about & overcome without trying to wrap himself around a long rifle. All your low recoil stuff sounds good to me, it's just a good fit that makes it all work so well.

I agree here, fit is so important and if correct he will handle recoil just fine. Little guys get beat when the stock is so long they have their head back at the heel. Ladies the same.

[Half Dog]

30-30's are not too costly.

[popper]

Load some of the unique and 2400/Rx7 loads. When my older GS was that age he didn't like his dad's 308MX and my unique 30/30 were 'anemic' in his mind. 2400 is still pretty good recoil for 1800 fps (like a 243) but he might handle it. At least he would have a choice.

[TXGunNut]

30-30's are not too costly.

True. Seems I have a few exceptions to that observation though, lol. That's an option as well but for some reason they decided on the 30-06.
I have a nice reduced load for the 30-30 already worked out.

[TCLouis]

Do a search on Seafire Blue Dot loads.

I had a good ACCURATE load for the 06, but did not write it down because I knew I would remember it . . . .

Loads for the 130 SSP and 150 GB 312 boolit.

Dang why have I gotten so sloppy with my note taking

I have NO idea what it was, but it shot well.

Then there are always the 4895 reduced loads.

[TXGunNut]

Don't have any Blue Dot, always been intrigued by it. I do keep 4895 around and given it's history and the old cartridges I enjoy at moderate velocities I'm pretty sure I need to explore it more.
My load notes start circa 1985 but my early pistol loads and 30-06 loads are not recorded because I knew them off the top of my head. My 38 SWC and WC loads survive but I had to ponder the SWC load awhile before it came to me. My 45ACP load survived somehow but my 30-06 loads are gone. My earliest 30-06 notes deal with working up loads for the (then) new Varget before many loads were published. Even those are incomplete, load I came up with turned out to be over the max loads later published. Oh, well.
Back on topic, the weekend is upon us and I should be able to do some load testing. Need to check velocities on another project so might as well check these too.

[44man]

It reminds me of my mailman, good friend that always brought his daughter. She was gun shy and used a .223, I did not approve. She shot great and hit a huge doe and lost her. There were 4 of us looking but no blood trail. I never seen a girl so dejected. She hung her head and had a hard time searching.
I went in a short time later and found her deer between 150-200 yards. Still fresh. I gutted and found the bullet only went 6". I convinced him to buy her a 30-30 and she has taken to it so easy. She has been happy ever since with many deer kills.
I would take a kid shooting more and they will ignore recoil shortly. But a loss in the field will hurt them worse and they might quit hunting with you. You need to look at the attitude after a shot, I don't think a kid should lose a deer. It has a large affect. Don't wimp them out, you cause more problems.
I hope you see where I am coming from, have you ever felt recoil with a shot on game? I hardly think so and you did not hear noise either.

[NoAngel]

I did the same thing for a friends son in .308
A case full of Trail Boss and a properly sized cast bullet will put a deer down just fine.
The deer down here in the south-eastern US are NOT hard to kill. Why people think they need SO much gun to do it is a mystery to me.
I liked the Trail Boss load but that 12.0g of Unique will serve you well.
A 180g bullet at 1500 fps will be more than enough. Shove that load through a pair of lungs or a heart and you won't be walking much that day.

[44man]

Not that easy and a 180 gr bullet will not open but do you talk a proper boolit or jacketed.
It is not the velocity it is the boolit.
Seen a little doe take 11 shots from a 12 ga with slugs, She might make 80#. I get upset when anyone says deer are easy to kill. Seen a small deer take 6 shots with a 30-06 in the lungs before giving up. 180 gr Silvertips.
I have lost deer with perfect hits with massive power and perfect hits, to even go there. I am not proud of a loss but it happens and I will admit it.
When you even get near the deer I have killed, you might know. When you lose as many from stupid you will learn more too.