Making Lyman #2 alloy

[molar]

I was given 3 5gal bucket of wheel weight yesterday and I'm in the process of sorting out the steel and ZN weights. I'd say 70 percent are lead. Most are clip on's, but a few are stick on's. Should I melt the COWW's and SOWW's together?

I will be using a Lee 20 pound pot to pour into ingots. How much tin should I add per lb of lead to arrive at Lyman #2 formula?

[Scorpius]

Don't ruin your production pot by smelting in it, get a cast iron pot to do that in.

[jmort]

You really don't want to waste $$$ making 90/5/5 out of 97.5/2.5/.5max
You would need to add 2.5% antimony and at least 4.5% tin. Just add 2% tin and balance the tin/antimony in the alloy. Most shoot COWW as is or add 1% tin. I like a balanced alloy.

And +1 on a separate smelting pot/set-up

[WebMonkey]

Lyman cast handbook says 1lb 50/50 solder added to 9lb ww will give you 10lbs #2 alloy.
There is a calculator that will let you 'figure out' using other lead/tin/antimony sources to arrive at #2 alloy.
Search this site for it. (Box in upper right)
Good luck.

[jmort]

^^^ where is the missing 2.5% antimony coming from if you just add 50/50 solder???

[Skipper]

^^^ where is the missing 2.5% antimony coming from if you just add 50/50 solder???

From the wheel weights

[jmort]

^^^ That is impossible

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was given 3 5gal bucket of wheel weight yesterday and I'm in the process of sorting out the steel and ZN weights. I'd say 70 percent are lead. Most are clip on's, but a few are stick on's. Should I melt the COWW's and SOWW's together?

I will be using a Lee 20 pound pot to pour into ingots. How much tin should I add per lb of lead to arrive at Lyman #2 formula?

Molar,
welcome to the forum.

First, Yes keep the COWW and SOWW separate.
Second, hold off on your Lyman #2 blending project, Do some reading first. Besides the lyman casting book, there is "From Ingot to Target" by Glen Fryxell. But the info in the link below is about as good as it gets for info about alloys.
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Now, as others have said, you don't need really Lyman #2.
I use 50% COWW and 50% near pure (which can be soft range scrap or SOWW)for low pressure pistol boolits. I use COWW for Magnum pistol boolits and 9mm and 40, as they are high pressure rounds. I will add tin, only if I think I need it, for casting fillout for a troublesome mold or if the alloy doesn't seem to be up to snuff...once you get some experience casting, these things will become obvious, but I realize to a newbie (I was one not too long ago), it seems impossible to read the tea leaves...or um, the alloy dross as it were.

When you get to castboolit Rifle loading(once you leave the low pressure range, there is a new set of guidelines), anyway for the most part, using the starting loads (or near it) in the Lyman cast boolit handbook 4th Ed, COWW will be fine...generally I would add tin, as long skinny rifle boolits are troublesome to cast. With that said, some years back, I ordered some 94-3-3 that was blended by someone how had equipment (that I don't have) to achieve a blend near certified grade. I wanted to do some testing type loading, otherwise I wouldn't have went that route, as.... honestly for our intents and purposes, that is equivalent to COWW with 2% tin added.

[molar]

Molar,
welcome to the forum.

First, Yes keep the COWW and SOWW separate.
Second, hold off on your Lyman #2 blending project, Do some reading first. Besides the lyman casting book, there is "From Ingot to Target" by Glen Fryxell. But the info in the link below is about as good as it gets for info about alloys.
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Now, as others have said, you don't need really Lyman #2.
I use 50% COWW and 50% near pure (which can be soft range scrap or SOWW)for low pressure pistol boolits. I use COWW for Magnum pistol boolits and 9mm and 40, as they are high pressure rounds. I will add tin, only if I think I need it, for casting fillout for a troublesome mold or if the alloy doesn't seem to be up to snuff...once you get some experience casting, these things will become obvious, but I realize to a newbie (I was one not too long ago), it seems impossible to read the tea leaves...or um, the alloy dross as it were.

When you get to castboolit Rifle loading(once you leave the low pressure range, there is a new set of guidelines), anyway for the most part, using the starting loads (or near it) in the Lyman cast boolit handbook 4th Ed, COWW will be fine...generally I would add tin, as long skinny rifle boolits are troublesome to cast. With that said, some years back, I ordered some 94-3-3 that was blended by someone how had equipment (that I don't have) to achieve a blend near certified grade. I wanted to do some testing type loading, otherwise I wouldn't have went that route, as.... honestly for our intents and purposes, that is equivalent to COWW with 2% tin added.

What do you use the separated stick on wheel weights for?

I received a 401 200 gr WFN mold and 501 383 RF mold from NOE a few days ago. The 200 gr .401 will be used in 10mm at a velocity somewhere between 1200-1300 fps. The 501 bullets will be used in a reduced 500 S&W load and will be kept to 1300 fps or so. I've got some hi tek bronze powder and a convection oven to coat the bullets. The molds are plain base, not gas check.

Given the above mention velocities, will straight COWW's be sufficient or do I need to add tin to the mixture.

I'm also going to order a 432 265gr RF mold from NOE for 44 mag pistol and rifle. I should be able to obtain somewhere near 1800 fps with the rifle. Do I need gas checks for the bullets or will the hi tek coating be sufficient to avoid leading? Thanks

[molar]

For those of you saying get a seperate pot to smelt in, what is your heat source?

I imagine you are doing it outdoors and not using the cooktop in your kitchen. LOL

[jmort]

This is what I use and, in my opinion is the best deal out there. $68.00 and free shipping
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/back...554BPHP17.html


Item #: 554BPHP17

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[JWT]

For those of you saying get a seperate pot to smelt in, what is your heat source?

I imagine you are doing it outdoors and not using the cooktop in your kitchen. LOL

Turkey fryer burner with a cast iron dutch oven.

[Skipper]

^^^ That is impossible

According to http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm

Clip on weights are 2%

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What do you use the separated stick on wheel weights for?

I received a 401 200 gr WFN mold and 501 383 RF mold from NOE a few days ago. The 200 gr .401 will be used in 10mm at a velocity somewhere between 1200-1300 fps. The 501 bullets will be used in a reduced 500 S&W load and will be kept to 1300 fps or so. I've got some hi tek bronze powder and a convection oven to coat the bullets. The molds are plain base, not gas check.

Given the above mention velocities, will straight COWW's be sufficient or do I need to add tin to the mixture.

I'm also going to order a 432 265gr RF mold from NOE for 44 mag pistol and rifle. I should be able to obtain somewhere near 1800 fps with the rifle. Do I need gas checks for the bullets or will the hi tek coating be sufficient to avoid leading? Thanks

regarding your first question, If you re-read my post, I mention this, "I use 50% COWW and 50% near pure (which can be soft range scrap or SOWW)for low pressure pistol boolits."

If you read the alloy info that I Linked to above, it has a chart of alloys and maximum recommended pressure. Your reloading manual should have some pressures listed with the data. While I gave you some "ballpark advice" I can't really give you much more precise advice to your questions, without more info. Because different powders can have different pressures for the same velocities...that is something you probably need to research yourself.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

For those of you saying get a seperate pot to smelt in, what is your heat source?

I imagine you are doing it outdoors and not using the cooktop in your kitchen. LOL

Yes, outdoors.
I use a Coleman "gasoline" (camping) cookstove and a 4 qt stainless steel soup pot.

[jmort]

There was a thread where members collaborated and XRF tested COWW ingots from different parts of the country.
As I recall, the XRF analysis came back at 2.5 % antimony and very little tin. Regardless, where is the 3% antimony coming from, not the 50/50 solder? There is some real bad advice in this thread. Magical antimony from the ethers.

[Yodogsandman]

Welcome Molar!

Back 35 or 40 years ago clip on wheel weights (COWW) had a much higher antimony (Sb) content of about 4%. Now, it runs from 2.5% to 3%. Tin (Sn) has not changed that much. Back then it was possible to make an alloy that was close to the Lyman #2 alloy of 90-5-5, Lead (Pb), antimony (Sb), tin (Sn). Now, COWW run about 97-2.5-.5. We've also found out, through the years, that only an amount of tin that allows the mold to fully fill out is needed. With larger diameter, short pistol boolits, straight COWW works fine. Longer, smaller diameter rifle boolits need a little tin added, up to the same as the antimony content (2 .5% COWW). Any more tin added is wasted where the alloy (COWW) hasn't enough antimonial molecules for the tin to attach to. So, 2 % tin is the most needed to be added.

95-2.5-2.5 is a great alloy mix for most of our uses as casters and shooters. It will handle pressures and velocities up to jackested velocities. If you feel you need anything harder, it can be water dropped from the mold or oven heat treated and then quenched. Air cooled and age hardened gives a Brinnel Hardness Number (BHN) of 11-12 BHN. Water dropped will be from 16-18 BHN. Oven heat treated to just below the boolits slump temperature and then quenched in ice cold water will go 30 BHN. By varying the oven heat and quench temperatures, the hardness can be customized to your purpose.

Clip on (COWW) and stick on wheel weights (SOWW) should be rendered separately. SOWW are sometimes close to pure lead (Pb) and sometimes close to COWW. I separate my SOWW for their expected content. SOWW ingots that should be close to Pb will "thunk" on a concrete floor and ingots suspected of being near COWW will "clink". See BNEs' sticky above for his XrF testing and photos of SOWW.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...On-WW-XrF-Data

When smelting or rendering down your wheel weight, keep the temperature below 750*F. Zink melts at about 780*F so, if you miss some zinkers, they won't melt and will float to the surface to be skimmed off.

Hope you can find some another way to melt them all down. Smelting is a dirty job and will leave your casting pot a mess and possibly plug up a bottom pour pots spigot. I started with a 10 lb Lyman pot outside on a Coleman stove.

Be safe and wear all your safety stuff! Good luck!

[pjames32]

Good advise Sandman. I've used a camp stove or a turkey burner for heat and a cast iron dutch oven used only for smelting. I set up on a wood spool so I don't have to bend over too much (I'm old). Pour my ingots on the spool, smack them on the edge when cool.
PJ

[runfiverun]

there is some good advice in this thread.
but you can't make 5/5 alloy from ww alloy just by throwing tin at it.
5/5 alloy has it's uses but 90+% of what we do is covered by ww alloy.
I mix the stick on and clip on ww alloy together at about a 3-1 ratio clip to stick.
been doing this for years.
started doing it cause I noticed I had about 3 times more clip on ww's than I did stick on ww's.
then I toss in some tin, about 0.75% or so.
it's worked for me since the 70's so I'm sticking with it.

as far as cleaning up old ww's, a dutch oven and a fish fryer or camp stove will do the job anything with more than 35,000 btu will eventually melt lead.
keep everything covered and out of the wind.

[Eddie17]

I've used my Lee Magnum Melter 20-lb pot to smelt over 1200 lbs of Lead ingots.
When I need to cast boolits, just clean out and go.
Ladle casting, not a bottom pour pot.