I just got a very fluffy case of Swiss FF

[Chill Wills]

Most of the Swiss powder lots I have had are close to the same density. Some variation but close if not right on the same. The last 100 pounds, in two 50 lb orders of different lots about a year apart were exactly the same and shot the same too. That is somewhat lucky as often you might have to adjust half a grain or a grain to make a load work the same when you start a new batch.

This case of powder I just started is very fluffy. 7% lighter by volume and a 58 grain load of the old lot in my 40-60 Maynard now uses 54 grains to fill the case to the same volume. So far, the new load of 54grs looks like it shoots well enough but I do not have any chronograph numbers yet to see if it has the velocity I want.

[Hiwall55]

My new case of OldEnsford went the other way. Having my measure set at 66 grains now throws 69 grains. Accuracy is the same so I guess we'll see how it works out.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

so I am not the only one.
some time ago, the first time I droptubed fireformed 40/72 (405win hornady brass) full of swiss 1f, they held 9o gns with a 0.060 ldpe wad level with the top.
that particular lot of powder shot as well as anything with the powder just droptubed and slightly compressed, from memory about 85 gns,
I thought "who needs a 40/85 ballard?", and reported this load in the Shiloh forum.
the next lot of 1f only took 80 gns to fill the case similarly.
best load with that was to fill the case as above, and compress 0.150"
since then, different lots have taken between 82.5 and 85 gns, so the first 2 lots might have been at each extreme.
interestingly swiss 1.5 has taken between 82.5 and 84 gns from lot to lot.
leaving the powder measure on the same setting will not necessarily offer up the same volume of powder, a thing I find hard to explain.
both powders and all loads seem to shoot to similar but not exact sight settings out to 1000 yds.
an example of this might be that the top 1/2 of the group with one lot might hit a ram at 500 meters, while the bottom 1/2 of another lot would hit the ram.
that might be about 2 points different in elevation.
this can be within differences from day to day due to atmospheric conditions.
in sight settings there seems to be as much variation within a grade (e.g. 1f) than between grades, from lot to lot.
where I have noticed greater changes in sight setting requirement is when using harder bullets, with my bore diameter pp ellipticals.
at 900 meters (990 yards) 12:1 alloy shoots 7 points higher than 16:1, enough to clean miss the palma target.
the importance of obtaining large lots of powder should not be underestimated.
keep safe,
bruce.

[kokomokid]

My old 3f load was 63.6 grains at 1175fps and I have loaded my new fluffy powder all the way down to 61.3 which was still a bit fast at 1185. These were 45-70 550 grain mini groove ave vel over my Oehler.

[Hiwall55]

1.5 got heavier ,3 got lighter,2f probably stayed the same.

[Chill Wills]

With the summer shooting season over I have had a little more time to see how this new lot of powder shoots. I have found a mediocre but not great 45-70 pig load using it. I had to back off the weight of the old load, 63.5 grs down to 57.5 to get equal volume in the case; this, with the same powder measure setting. Accuracy was not great and two more grains maybe improved the 300 meter group from 5-6" high to 4-5". I do not worry much about the horizontal and besides, these were round groups. Shooting my old load, old lot of Swiss, just after the three powder levels of load test, 57.5, 59.5 & 61.5, the old powder shot into one nice splat on the 300m steel disk I use for load testing.
I have a few pounds of the old lot still so I still have time to get something going.

In testing the new powder in the 40-60 Maynard, nothing I did was really all the great.....??? This is Not like my experience with Swiss powder at all. I would describe my experience to be more like using the new powder volume to volume with the old and then adjusting a grain or so one way or the other to find the best accuracy.

I am considering getting another case of Swiss 2f, making sure it is a different lot and see how that goes. I have never had a batch of Swiss that was so far off density and responded so poorly to load development as this current batch.. If a different lot performs more like my normal experience I will get a second case of that lot and do something with the old.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

have you tried more compression, up to 0.200".
nothing to lose.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Chill Wills]

have you tried more compression, up to 0.200".
nothing to lose.
keep safe,
bruce.

Exactly. That really is the direction of experimentation that is still open. It means there is something funky about this lot.

[9w1911]

Humidity or lack there of?

[Sawdust]

What is the lot number? Thanks

[Chill Wills]

Good question.
At some point I thought I would put it in the thread but haven't yet - stand by and I will get my a.. in gear and look.

LOT # 250 . 713

Swiss 2F

[TXGunNut]

Newbie BP user question here: I'm thinking this is way outside the normal variation for Swiss powder, right? Any ideas how this could have happened?

Edit to add: actually been using BP for several years, just not as demanding as a serious BPCR competitor needs to be.

[Chill Wills]

Not a newbie question at all. I think it is a good question.

I haven't shot powder from all lots - far from it so it is hard to know what the range is, weight to volume, but, I have shot up a lot of cases and shot powder from part cases as well. This lot is different.
In addition, talking with others at matches I have come to the expectation when you get into a new lot of powder, that the weight per volume with Swiss powder will be within a grain or so of the last case using the typical charge for a 40-65 or 45-70 as unit of comparison.

Sometime in 2004 - 2005 there was a batch that was very light also. on the order of 4-5 grains per case, again like in a 45-70. It had high energy and shot well - meaning a good many competitors found it easy to get accuracy with. That is the only instance I have heard of a batch that far out of the norm.

When I received this batch and found it was light for volume I was concerned but thought of that old powder and I was hopeful. This lot I have now does not act the same as that old one and is for sure unlike any Swiss I have used BUT, maybe I just have not found the right loading.

One of the reasons Swiss caught on so fast in 1999 was that it was SO EASY to get going with. High quality BP is like that. If you have to shoot up pounds and pounds or half a case to fine an accurate load, you have not saved much money buying the cheap stuff. My most current Swiss powder lot may end up shooting Okay but it sure does not check the box on 'easy to get going with'. We'll see.

[Chill Wills]

Humidity or lack there of?

Good thinking but likely not because the plastic bottles come sealed much like a food container with the seal under the screw on cap.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

Michael,
different lots of swiss, both 1f and 1.5f, have proven to prefer compression from just evening up droptubed charges, say about 0.006", to 0.200".
often 1.5" is the magic number or close.
I clean my cases with soapy water and a brush in a cordless drill.
mostly the best load seems to coincide with less grey stuff in the water when I empty out a brushed case.
could just be a figment of the imagination.
keep safe,
bruce.

[country gent]

I am curious if you have chronographed any of the loads with the new powder? Volumn for volumn is it close in velocity yo the old lot or higher or lower velocity, Also how do the Extreme spreads xompare to the old lot number powder? Ive olny heard good reviews on Swiss powder and have some here to test and play with, but Ive been using alot of olde ensforde here with very good results. As stated above this new lot may require a little more or less compression than the old lot to perform at its best. How does the fouling compare to the how lot number? More less softer harder? This may also give an idea of which way to go. WHen working up loads I watch the extreme spread numbers closely as they show the efficency of the load, As compression increases to "optimum" ES drops then levels out some then past optimum they start to increase again. I have seen a little variation i olde ensforde lot to lot also but a small adjustment in the weight and it coes back in. On these rounds burning 50-85 grns of powder per load a pound dosnt last long buying by the case makes sense just for that reason along with getting themost out of the haz mat fee.

[Don McDowell]

Seems that about a year ago, this came up. Maybe do a search on the Shiloh forum to see what the end result was?

[Chill Wills]

Don, Are you going to shoot Cody's match tomorrow? Eron said he can send your rifles with me.

About the powder - I will do a search - maybe it is the same lot.

All this will have to wait until Monday - full weekend starting in 20 minutes.

Thanks all for the replies....

[kokomokid]

Wow that is about a 9% difference in weight per volume and I thought my 3f was off at about 4% light. Got mine shooting semi good at 1185 fps ave but not single digit spread yet. Had to change drop tube (shorter) to get same compression and may have to try diff primers again.

[Don McDowell]

Yes sir MR. Wills I am planning to be there tomorrow. Look forward to seeing you.