Deer with a rbh and 45 colt

[runfiverun]

one other thing you have to consider at the 1,000-1,200 fps area is the way the boolit buffers into and out of the speed of sound barrier.
hovering just over it can kill you when things slow down just that [] much.
couple that with a marginally stabilized boolit and things will go astray right at a predictable point. [like 78 yds]

[sac]

one other thing you have to consider at the 1,000-1,200 fps area is the way the boolit buffers into and out of the speed of sound barrier.
hovering just over it can kill you when things slow down just that [] much.
couple that with a marginally stabilized boolit and things will go astray right at a predictable point. [like 78 yds]

Good point, and as stated earlier by Doug being a newbie to handgun hunting its a bit overwhelming as to bullet choices. Makes me think I will start with a good Keith design like the RCBS shown earlier, than move to one of the LBT molds later. I do love to do load development for my firearms.

[tdoyka]

I got away from K type LSWC designs when I recut the forcing cones in my Rugers to 11 degrees, the sides of the WFN boolits are near bouts parallel and there is a gentler less deforming transition from the cylinder thoat into the bore whereas the K type you have this square front driving band that if it hits the forcing cone it wipes 1/3 of that front band away before it makes it into the bore. The wider meplat IMO does more damage than the smaller K type meplat, and this is why Veral designed those little oilcans. They do quite well in a deer and no HP needed.

Scott just call Veral at LBT and leave him a message. It might take a day or two but he will call you.

At 25-40yds most hunters wouldn't know the difference and the deer sure won't. The paradox is that you have all these different opinions, too many for one person to load ammo and create a scenario where each opinion would be tested and then results posted. A guy comes looking for an all around good boolit for deer, I am going to tell him what works best IMO. Not knocking anyone else but by the time these threads run their course, many newbs are totally lost as to which direction to turn, even seasoned reloaders and hunters have to second guess much of the information implied.

thanks!!!

i'm considered a newb since i don't really have much time in cast boolits. if they where jacketed bullets, i would be a seasoned kinda guy.

[gunseller]

It has been awhile sense I have posted but sense this is an Iowa question and I shoot deer in SW Iowa with a 45 Colt as well as others I will give my thoughts. The main bullet I use is a 250 grain SWC cast out of WW over 18 grains of 2400. I get better accuracy out of 2400 then H110. The other bullet I use is one that weights 260 grains when cast from WW ,again, over 18 grains of 2400. It is out of an 1884 mold so it is a rnfp. The reason for more speed is also to be flatter at longer range. With the last bullet I shot a deer at 205 steps. The bullet went in one side and out the other and the deer went down, no steps.
Steve

[TXGunNut]

I'm a fan of the WFN hunting boolit myself. Sometimes you can hear that meplat smack the critter, hunters in other stands can always tell when I connect with a deer or hog from the boom-smack of my big heavy WFN's. OTOH the 45 Colt is a very forgiving cartridge so at close range on most deer with almost any reasonable load it will put meat in the freezer. It's just good sportsmanship to try to deliver the quickest, most humane kill and I think a WFN over a stiff load of 296 will deliver that quite well.

[BrentD]

gunseller, I"m an Iowa hunter but I use muzzleloaders, long barreled ones. Can you summarize what the rules might be for percussion revolvers in Iowa? Are they late season legal (late Dec/Jan) and is there a minimum energy issue with them? My curiosity is up for some reason.

[sac]

gunseller, I"m an Iowa hunter but I use muzzleloaders, long barreled ones. Can you summarize what the rules might be for percussion revolvers in Iowa? Are they late season legal (late Dec/Jan) and is there a minimum energy issue with them? My curiosity is up for some reason.

From the Iowa's DNR currant regulations Muzzleloaders
:
Flintlock or percussion cap
muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44
and .775 caliber shooting single projectiles;
muzzleloading pistols .44 caliber or larger with a
minimum barrel length of 4 inches and no shoul
der
stock or long barrel modifications.
Muzzleloaders
equipped with electronic ignition are
not allowed
. There are no restrictions on in-line
or disk-type muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may
also be used.

From the the way I read it and have always understood you can only use a single shot muzzle loader.

[OS OK]

Attachment 175491

"OMG!...that's what the .45 Colt was meant to be...I only wish that my wimpy little Colt SAA could digest these!
This will knock them down, dress them out and come to a rolling stop in the next county!"

[BrentD]

Sac,
You might be right. Years ago, I hunted with a Joseph Lang percussion double, and I thought I was legal. I took the "single projectile" to mean "no buckshot". And muzzleloaders simply had to be loaded from the muzzle.

I don't know what the handgun restrictions are for Iowa except I remember they had to be straight cases, no bottlenecks. But I don't recall if there was a minimum power or caliber. I normally us a .54 flintlock or, occasionally, a .45 fast-twist underhammer. But something like a percussion revolver at 10 yds or so, seems interesting for some reason I don't really understand.

[sac]

Sac,
You might be right. Years ago, I hunted with a Joseph Lang percussion double, and I thought I was legal. I took the "single projectile" to mean "no buckshot". And muzzleloaders simply had to be loaded from the muzzle.

I don't know what the handgun restrictions are for Iowa except I remember they had to be straight cases, no bottlenecks. But I don't recall if there was a minimum power or caliber. I normally us a .54 flintlock or, occasionally, a .45 fast-twist underhammer. But something like a percussion revolver at 10 yds or so, seems interesting for some reason I don't really understand.

.357 is the minimum and 4 inch barrel. Never understood why you can use a 45-70 in a t/c contender but not in a rifle, Iowa and its dumb firearms laws.

[rodwha]

But something like a percussion revolver at 10 yds or so, seems interesting for some reason I don't really understand.

The stainless percussion revolver is the Ruger Old Army. I've found its more accurate charge to be 35 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford black powder or Triple 7 substitute powder. With my 195 grn WFN bullet that I had Tom create for me at Accurate Molds it is pushing about 450-500 ft/lbs according to similar loads shot across a chrony. This ought to be bad medicine on medium game, though I've also had Tom create me a similar bullet that weighs 245 grns intended for hogs.



The bullet left of center is my 195 grn version. It's roughly the length of the ball so as not to take up precious powder capacity, especially in the pistol next to it (Remington New Model Army), which holds a little less powder (accurate load is 30 grns of same powder producing about 350-400 ft/lbs).



I can't wait to put the whack on something with it!

[BrentD]

That Ruger should be fine for any deer at reasonable ranges. I've got a colt repro .44 with the 7" barrel. It suits my hand very well, unlike any other revolver I own or have shot. So MAYBE I can hit a paper plate at 10 yds or so. With a round ball and maybe 30+ grs of 3f swiss, that should work. But I have yet to prove to myself I'm capable.

I do like that 195 br bullet. The big one would be ideal for the Ruger, but the smaller one would be okay in a Colt Army I would think.

[Wolfer]

Here are two deer I killed the same day. One in the morning and one in the afternoon. Both with the 58 rem repro. 452-200 RF Lee cast of pure lead, all the FFFg I could get in the cylinder. Around 700 fps. Frankly I couldent tell any difference in the final result from deer shot with my 45 colt at a much higher power level.

[BrentD]

I'm impressed, Wolfer

[rodwha]

That Ruger should be fine for any deer at reasonable ranges. I've got a colt repro .44 with the 7" barrel. It suits my hand very well, unlike any other revolver I own or have shot. So MAYBE I can hit a paper plate at 10 yds or so. With a round ball and maybe 30+ grs of 3f swiss, that should work. But I have yet to prove to myself I'm capable.

I do like that 195 br bullet. The big one would be ideal for the Ruger, but the smaller one would be okay in a Colt Army I would think.

With my ROA I can get 3-3.5" at 15 yds with something like a Weaver stance, and 3.5-4" with my Remington. You should be shot to do much better than plate.

The 195 and even 170 grn (far right) both do rather well. Both guns give similar enough groups with those and a ball.

The 285 grn bullet was designed specifically for my Ruger as its made with modern gun steel and can handle much higher pressures. As it takes up a lot of powder capacity I gave it longer driving bands to increase pressures to get the velocity up enough to make it useful. A guy loaded his ASM Walker with that bullet and 52 grns of Pyrodex P and ruptured the chamber.

We were looking at moving to VA and so black bears may have been on the menu so ultimate penetration was called for. However we did not move there. Never know when something large may be hunted one day...

I've been considering having my Ruger chambers deepened or getting a ClassicBallistix cylinder. Might get above 600 ft/lbs with that.

[SSGOldfart]

Just dont expect to recover a fired bullet inside the deer, every one I have shot with a 45LC has had an entry and an exit wound.

Same here through and through,I've tried backing down a good bit,even my black powder load went through and through, all were under a 100 yards when shot,only one had to be tracked for about 50 yards.

[44man]

If anyone thinks a .45 Colt will do anything ---- You might be right, wonderful caliber. Yet like doug says, more velocity is needed for two things, stability with heavy boolits and imparted energy.
ME figures do not tell the tale at all. Penetration can be amazing but alone is not enough.
I have the old Vaquero and shoot heavy, 300 to 335 gr with 21.5 gr of 296. That gives me around 1160 fps but they spray and pray if shot slow. Even though they are not that fast, results on deer have been great.
To shoot slower I would go to a boolit in the 250 to 260 range, still will kill but there is a difference in damage with huge amounts of blood trails from faster.
Please don't use ME figures. They lead you astray. My .500 JRH shows 1781 foot pounds. A too hard boolit pokes a hole with no blood trail. No energy is left behind where needed.
At 900 fps, it just takes a different boolit construction. You need to think of a FMJ from an 06 with maybe 2612 foot pounds. Would you hunt deer with a FMJ?
I have shot many deer with my Ruger OA and round balls. They die very fast and bone is broken without finding a ball inside. ME is sad but darn the gun will kill.
Throw the book away with all the numbers. ANYTHING works if just done right.
I have always considered a pure ball or boolit the most devastating projectile ever but I can't shoot them from a modern revolver with smokeless and hit. But I can make a boolit work. I prefer to work on the nose.
Most deer I have killed were with either a bow or a .45 flint lock with a RB. Then a .50 and a .54 Hawken.
Adjust the boolit for the .45 like any other caliber and make jerky.

[rodwha]

I like to use ME figures merely to compare to known modern ammo. ME is not the be all end all. In this instance it shows that with the chosen powder I am achieving no less than the standard .45 Colt ammo.

When I first got my ROA I looked into what could be expected. Everyone told me it was pathetic and wouldn't reach 300 ft/lbs and was akin to using a .38 Spl. But then I found people who actually hunted with it and repros, but used more energetic powders (Swiss and Triple 7, and now Olde Eynsford) and were getting no less than 400 ft/lbs. Many of the other powders indeed produce the weaker .38 Spl power levels, and so I include those figures to show that it's certainly not what many believe it to be. How can one argue about .45 Colt power levels being anemic and inhumane?

[44man]

Can't argue at all. Seeing what both do I sure agree.
I am old and funny and will take a C&B or old ML any day. The OA will rival a .44 mag and a .54 will rival a .300 Weatherby except for distance.
I can't come to terms with an inline. I just can't wrap my head around the things. I prefer a .45 Colt and even with BP--WHO SAID IT SUCKS? I will eat good meat.Back straps on the grill!
The Colt is OLD but like a 45-70, nobody made better.
I was told repeatably my .45 flint lock was not enough for deer. Those guys ate boiled shoe leather.

[rodwha]

I was told repeatably my .45 flint lock was not enough for deer. Those guys ate boiled shoe leather.

Prior to the move west a .40 caliber rifle was rather large, though the distance was typically quite short.

I'm not fond of inlines either. I prefer the looks of a cap or flintlock myself.