38 caliber Wadcutter Choices

[Brian Albin]

The 38 Special wadcutters shown below are all Lymans. These have listed weights from 140 to 150 grs with two of them being for the adjustable weight type of mold. Pictured from the left their numbers are:
358087 125-140gr
358495 141gr
358063 148gr
358091 148gr
358395 148gr
358432 148-160gr
358344 150gr
I was surprised to see one maker offered so many. In addition to these, there were also three or four in the catalog at lighter weight.
　
Can somebody help me sort through them? How do they differ? Or, what is the design idea behind their differences? I see two of them have extra thick base bands. I can understand this for rifle pressures, but is it an advantage in a revolver?
Number 91 has a bevel base for easier seating, perhaps 63 has this also. I can not tell from the picture which ones have beveled crimp grooves. Perhaps that is a feature which brought some of them into being. Are some of these hollow base? It looks like 395 probably is. 63 and 395 appear to have larger grease grooves than the others. Is this a help? Pistol barrels being as short as they are, I wonder if perhaps any amount of grease is enough, big quantities of lube being only for rifle Bbls.
　
Do some of these shoot better in some pistols, while other pistols favor other of them?
　
I thank you for your comments and ideas.
Brian

[.22-10-45]

#358495 is solid base version of hollow base #358395 designed by Ed McGivern. #358432 designed by H.A. Nott. #358344 designed by C.C. Crossman..this has been my favorite in a Circa 1905 Colt Bisley 7 1/2" in Colt .38. I recently picked up a little #358425..110gr. I have a bevel-base Lyman W.C., but don't have notes with me on mould #..this one by the way shoots very well in that Bisley..but the bevel tends to accumulate lube when sizing. You have to remember these were from the haydays of revolver target shooting...and Ideal/Lyman would cut just about any design one wanted..especially if from big name target shooters. I shot alot of police combat in the mid to late 70's..we bought our cast w.c. bullets from club member..problem was he thought harder was better..those things leaded our .38's from stem to stern..and I swore I would never own a wadcutter mould...here 40 some years later & I find myself owning just about every design of W.C. mould Ideal/Lyman turned out!..Only now I cast e'm soft & use a soft beeswax/lanolin/carnuaba lube mix.

[Oyeboten]

Some more here...
http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

I can not tell either who is Hollow Base and who is not.

In addition to which, I have seen IDEAL and LYMAN Molds which are not represented in that Illustration.

I do not understand the differing Lube Groove arrangements either.

Some Lube is good to have, for sure, but, I have never understood why some Bullets/Boolits have SO many Lube Grooves, while others of the same weight and Calibre, have only one or two.

I will guess the heavier Full Meplat Wadcutters may have had advantage for longer ( Pistol/Revolver ) ranges ( within reason ) over the lighter ones.

Those with the little 'pop up' instead of just being flat, may have had some slight aerodynamic advantage, over longer ranges, than the plain flat front ones.

That exhausts my own conjectures with these!

[Oyeboten]

#358495 is solid base version of hollow base #358395 designed by Ed McGivern. #358432 designed by H.A. Nott. #358344 designed by C.C. Crossman..this has been my favorite in a Circa 1905 Colt Bisley 7 1/2" in Colt .38. I recently picked up a little #358425..110gr. I have a bevel-base Lyman W.C., but don't have notes with me on mould #..this one by the way shoots very well in that Bisley..but the bevel tends to accumulate lube when sizing. You have to remember these were from the haydays of revolver target shooting...and Ideal/Lyman would cut just about any design one wanted..especially if from big name target shooters. I shot alot of police combat in the mid to late 70's..we bought our cast w.c. bullets from club member..problem was he thought harder was better..those things leaded our .38's from stem to stern..and I swore I would never own a wadcutter mould...here 40 some years later & I find myself owning just about every design of W.C. mould Ideal/Lyman turned out!..Only now I cast e'm soft & use a soft beeswax/lanolin/carnuaba lube mix.

Say, maybe you can answer a question for me.

Some while back I saw an old Ideal or Lyman Mold on ebay, for casting a .410 Flat top flat bottom 210 Grain or so Wadcutter.

I can not find this Mold on any of the Lyman/Ideal Mold Tables.

I did not bid on the Mold, then three Days later I came in to an early S & W Model 57, and now I am kicking myself that I did not have the prescience to have bid on and have won that Auction! It was nagging me that I ought to have that Mold, but I had no use for it at the time! Eeeesh!

Is this a Mold you have on hand or have seen or heard of?

And if so, would you happen to have the Mold Number for it?

I have been very pleased with Bees Wax and a little Caranuba, ( but I did not have any Lanolin in it ) for my Black Powder Revolvers, whether Cap & Ball or Metallic Cartridge.

Is it a good choice also for Smokeless?

[Shiloh]

They all seem to shoot well. LEE has a clone of they Ideal/Lyman 35891

Shiloh

[tazman]

One of the differences that is most important to me is where the crimp groove is located on the boolit. The two boolits pictured on the far right are designed to have more of the boolit outside the case than other wadcutters.
This allows powder charges similar to normal semi wadcutters and round nose boolits since the case capacity is not reduced by deeply seating the boolit.
As far as accuracy, I have tried all but one of the mentioned wadcutters as well as from other manufacturers. Accuracy is nearly identical across the board. Just pick the one you find easiest to use and make it fit the gun. Find what powder charge works the best in your firearm. Fit and powder charge make more difference to accuracy than the wadcutter design.

[Wayne Smith]

I have been very pleased with Bees Wax and a little Caranuba, ( but I did not have any Lanolin in it ) for my Black Powder Revolvers, whether Cap & Ball or Metallic Cartridge.

Is it a good choice also for Smokeless?

Yes. I use emmerts for all of my revolver/pistol shooting, BP shooting, and some plinking rifle shooting.

[Valley-Shooter]

I've heard that many WC's only need lube on their bottom groove to get good accuracy. I've tried this, but it's hard to do if you need to size most of the bullet because most of it is seated deep in the case. You end up with lube in all the grooves. You could always size and lube in 2 steps, but the just adds time to the process.

[Thumbcocker]

I have always been partial to 358495.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting thread . . . .

taxman says it very well . . . ..

I have tried a number of different designs and finally settled on the I don358-432 which is offered in both 148 gr and 160 grain. I don't shoot as may WC as I do the 358-311 RN or the Lee Tl SWC but for general plinking, the 148 gr. designs do work well out of all of my vintage 38s. The 160 grain I load up for SD rounds.

[DerekP Houston]

I've tried a few different designs, haven't really noticed a difference in performance at my level. The bevel base #50 h&g I got is slightly easier to seat in my progressive so that is what I have been using mainly now.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Say, maybe you can answer a question for me.

Some while back I saw an old Ideal or Lyman Mold on ebay, for casting a .410 Flat top flat bottom 210 Grain or so Wadcutter.

I can not find this Mold on any of the Lyman/Ideal Mold Tables.

I did not bid on the Mold, then three Days later I came in to an early S & W Model 57, and now I am kicking myself that I did not have the prescience to have bid on and have won that Auction! It was nagging me that I ought to have that Mold, but I had no use for it at the time! Eeeesh!

Is this a Mold you have on hand or have seen or heard of?

And if so, would you happen to have the Mold Number for it?

I have been very pleased with Bees Wax and a little Caranuba, ( but I did not have any Lanolin in it ) for my Black Powder Revolvers, whether Cap & Ball or Metallic Cartridge.

Is it a good choice also for Smokeless?

41 cal WC molds are as rare as hens teeth, I found it best to have one custom made by Accurate molds.http://www.accuratemolds.com/
I love this 196gr. WC and was a design already in his catalog and you can have Tom make it to your Gun's spec's, if you know them.

[toallmy]

I have found Emmerts quite useful in most low pressure handgun rounds , keeps fouling soft and easily removed .

[Harry O]

I used to use Hornady .38 hollow-base wadcutters (for about 20 years), until they became unavailable. After that, I tried several different wadcutters that I cast from two or four cavity moulds. All were flat base bullets. None of them were quite as accurate as the Hornadys.

Eventually, I ran across a well used 358395 hollow-base wadcutter. It is single cavity, so casting is very slow, but it is more accurate than the others I tried. It is probably just as accurate as the Hornady, but it has been many years since I shot them so I am just going on memory. I cast them from dead soft (40:1) lead/tin, size them to 0.359" and use SPG lube. Anyway, it is my choice for .38 Special wadcutters now.

[mdi]

They all seem to shoot well. LEE has a clone of they Ideal/Lyman 35891

Shiloh

I've fired one and one half boat loads of this bullet in my 3, .38 Specials, and one .357 Magnum. My house gun (a 2" .38) is fed this bullet, cast from about 16+ BHN alloy, over a hefty load of W231...

[Char-Gar]

I have loaded and fired many different solid base wadcutter designs in various 38 Specials and 357 Magnums over the years and have not found one that was clearly superior. I will hasten to say, that I am not a handgun best rest shooter or curious load development fellow. I hold the handguns in one or more hands, stand up and shoot. This is my testing method, such as it is.

[jeepyj]

I'm partial to the 358091 version for PC and the 358495 for standard lube for me in a wad cutter is one of my favorite and as of late the bevel base 091in PC is quite nice all the way around. My Smiths likes about 4.5 grains of Unique to make them very happy.
Jeepyj

[.22-10-45]

Heres a nice write up: Wadcutter.htm

[Brian Albin]

Thank you, .22-10-45 for identifying the designer of several of these. I very much like history of shooting sport.
　
Thank you, tazman for telling me that "Accuracy [of the many designs] is nearly identical across the board". That takes a load off my choosing.
　
　
When I was a boy in the sixties we read that wadcutters were only flight stable to short range. I do not know what "short" range was meant to be. Was this true only of the completely flat front? Do those with the small bump on the front break up the air flow and allow accuracy to longer range? Have you accuracy tested wadcutters at 100 yds or further?
　
Brian

[DerekP Houston]

Thank you, .22-10-45 for identifying the designer of several of these. I very much like history of shooting sport.
　
Thank you, tazman for telling me that "Accuracy [of the many designs] is nearly identical across the board". That takes a load off my choosing.
　
　
When I was a boy in the sixties we read that wadcutters were only flight stable to short range. I do not know what "short" range was meant to be. Was this true only of the completely flat front? Do those with the small bump on the front break up the air flow and allow accuracy to longer range? Have you accuracy tested wadcutters at 100 yds or further?
　
Brian

Longest I shoot mine at is 20yrds...the max for my indoor range. I haven't noticed any difference as long as I do my part. Can't forget the look on my dads face when i took out the xring while he was struggling at 7 with a 44mag.

I'm of the opinion if they are farther away than 50yrds i might as well just grab my rifle. Some guys here are truly bullseye artists though and can keep solid groups at that range. I'll let them post the info so I don't ruin it.