.303's old worn rifling not cutting the paper patch

[RPRNY]

I think it's time for a 35 Territorial.

[gunwonk]

I think it's time for a 35 Territorial.

I was considering .35/303 quite a while back (Elwood Epps was offering the rebore & rechamber), but I never followed through. Since then I've gotten a .350 Rem. Mag., which does pretty well with paper patch (IOU a post about that), so I have a .35 on hand.

As it happens, I think I'd prefer to keep this .303 a .303, in order to try it in an "old rifle" match locally. (The .303 British cartridge dates from 1888.)

Might be time for a new tube for the old warhorse. http://criterionbarrels.com/p14-enfield

I like this idea. But when I followed Criterion's link to their dealer, Dean's Gun Restoration -- which apparently installs all the others -- had a note that they do not install this barrel on P-14's. Any idea why it's hard? (And would anyone care to recommend a smith who works on P-14's, to do the install? Thanks!)
Meanwhile,

Try to get a few 316299 pills to try. I bet they will work in the P14.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=31_285

I have those in a GC form. Some of each, PCed, plain, sized before and after PC. I also have padded envelopes.

PM sent.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Tsk, last post lost the pic somehow. Here it is:Attachment 175684

I think it might be a good idea to reduce the width of the patch, or trim that twisted tail shorter. If it is dragged off to one side by centrifugal force there will be a split second in which the bullet is imbalanced before the patch discards, and that is enough to start a wobble.

I have picked up .577/.450 bullets in places as far apart as Arabia and Scotland, and have found the shape of that twist imprinted in the base depression. TF Fremantle, one of the developers of the .303, contrasts its meticulous loading with the slapdash procedure of the boys who loaded the Martini round. If we could apply the same stylistic analysis as we do to old masters and archaeological finds, I think we could identify individual patch-twisters.

[gunwonk]

I think it might be a good idea to reduce the width of the patch, or trim that twisted tail shorter. If it is dragged off to one side by centrifugal force there will be a split second in which the bullet is imbalanced before the patch discards, and that is enough to start a wobble.

Oops, I should have mentioned that before resizing I cut off the tail, and push the bullet through the die nose first, using a flat face punch. That leaves the bullet base still covered 100% with paper, which has been flattened pretty well by the punch, although there's still a bit of a bump in the paper from the stub of the tail. I try to make sure that the bump is centered, but the process is inexact.

I haven't fired these latest paper patch .303 loads far enough to tell, but could bullet wobble explain the results I've been getting with paper patched .22 Hornet and .222 Remington? They seem to shoot pretty well at 100 yards, start to fall apart at 200 yards, and just disappear at 300 yards (which is the max at my range).

[303Guy]

I've posted here before about trying paper patch in my old P-14 .303:

• First I sized to groove diameter (.3125). (Yes, now I know this is wrong.) Most of the bullets didn't spin, and keyholed. No such thing as a group.
• Next I sized to throat diameter (.316). (Uh oh, the throat is much bigger than the bore.) This time there was a 25 yard group, but signs of bullet tipping, so it likely wasn't going to work well at longer ranges.

This time I sized to throat diameter (.316"), and put a buffer (grits) between the powder and the bullet. I was thinking maybe the muzzle blast was messing up the base of the patch on exit, and thought to put a little space in there for the bullet to get clear first.

Results were a little better, still not sure it'll work at 100 yd., but I got curious and went hunting for the patch remnants. Here's a pic (below) of what I found. (That's green bar computer paper. The bars were crosswise to the bore, and the dark lines are smudge from the rifling lands.)

Looks like the P-14's rifling is worn all smooth, no more sharp edges, and doesn't cut the patch into segments, so pretty much the whole patch has to unwind after the bullet gets going.

Maybe I'll try winding the patches in both directions, to see if one's better.

The grits could be a problem. I have tried it and found it to cause boolit base cupping and a feathered trailing edge. But on the worn bore question - the worn bore actually gives you the ideal paper patch rifle. I have a rifle barrel with a bore with no edges to the rifling - kind of just an impression of rifling. Well, that bore shot very accurately with paper patched boolits.

I developed a patched boolit load that would disintegrate the patch, using a 'test tube'. I worked up a load that would fully disintegrate the patch. After a number of shots I needed to increase the powder charge to achieve the same patch disintegration.

The trick is to get the alloy right - well hardness. I also had the right boolit shape and size and the right paper for that particular barrel.

[longbow]

A couple of things I note:

- your patch has a very long bevel. I would go more like 60 degrees so much shorter... though that is just my opinion.
- the 311410 is a pretty short boolit for the .303 British chamber. There may be too much jump to the rifling. I was paper patching 180 gr. short ogive boolits so they filled the throat and that seemed to work fairly well. I did try some short light boolits but accuracy disappeared.

Have you tried seating those 311410's right out with maybe just the base band in the neck? That might move them far enough to eliminate jump to the rifling.

Have you got any heavier (longer) .30 cal. boolits to test? Mind you, I tried 31141's (170 gr. RNFP) with thinner paper but did not get very good accuracy. best was with the 0.301" smooth boolits knurled up to 0.303"/0.304" and thicker paper (0.003" IIRC). That is a bit contrary to docone31's results. I just haven't had much luck with the larger boolits.

Keep trying, there will be a solution/combination of boolit and patch out there that will work well I am sure.

Longbow