!!NEW Wildcat!!: 9mm Rimmed made from 357 magnum for Pietta Rough Rider revolver

[AJG]

!!NEW Wildcat!!: 9mm Rimmed made from 357 magnum for Pietta Rough Rider revolver

Grumpa,

Similar as you I did for my Heritage (Pietta) Rough Rider 357 mag Revolver.

I could not get enough Speed from 357 mag cases with 4 grains of type Titegroup powder and 9mm FMJ bullet. Even if I crimped it fairly well it just does not get the proper kick so velocity and Penetration is way to low. First I blamed bad Barrel seal (Obturation) of the smaller 9mm bullet in an 38 spl/357 mag Barrel but the Ruger redhawk I have understood is convertible as well (Comes with an 9mm cylinder and a 357 mag cilinder) and so Shooting 9mm in 357 Magnum Revolvers should work.

So I trimmed down an 357 mag case to 19mm length and loaded it the same as I do my 9mm Luger. Works very nice in that Revolver and has a lesser recoil than factory 357 mag rounds.

It seems to have too much empty space in the 357 mag 38 spl cases in order to get to 9mm Performance. So I guess the 9mm is one of the most efficient calibers since it has almost no empty space in the case and therefore is a way more efficient round as the 357 mag/38spl.

The most efficient round is therefore the case which gets allmost full of powder and the bullet sits right obove the powder (allmost no empty airspace). Efficiency in a case/caliber means with the Minimum amount of powder you get the Maximum of power Levels (Penetration).

The 9mmx19 rimmed 357 mag (trimmed down wildcat) has more Penetration than a regular 9mm with the same amount of powder (although the Barrel of the 357 mag Revolver is 5.5" and the S&W 9mm SD9VE Barrel is 4"). This wildcat caliber has a kick between 38spl (although I never shot one from this gun) and lower kick than a full power 357 mag.

[jmorris]

Interesting, I think I'll keep my 357 brass though and just use the 9mm cylinder instead. After all, they don't have to fit in a magazine so you can load them long, if you need to.

[AJG]

Yes if you are in the USA you can easy Access to any spare cylinder. But I am located in Southamerica where I can not even get powder nor do they allow molds (not allowed bullet making).
So I have to work with whats availlabel (Commercial 9mm bullets and empty 357/38spl brass).
It would be much easier if I had an 9mm cylinder.

Does anyone make an 9mm cylinder what will fit the Heritage Rough Rider 357 mag (or Pietta 1873 357 Magnum)?

[jmorris]

Sorry, I get an F on reading comprehension, I skimmed over "the Ruger redhawk I have understood is convertible as well" and my mind saw "the Ruger Blackhawk I have..."

What are you using for propelent since you can't get powder?

[victorfox]

scavenged from shotshells as he stated earlier

[SSGOldfart]

AJG Sir you might want to have a look at making your own black powder, besides you could make your own .356 bullets, I bet those fun are .355. Some times you can bump up in size just a little.
I'll keep my 357 caliber brass as is.

[victorfox]

I think he could use some sort of filler. A guy here in brazil is inserting EVA wads under his 38 bullets to improve powder burn... (I don't know him personally), but here goes the link.

http://codinamakerbullets.blogspot.c...te-no.html?m=1

HTH

[jmorris]

scavenged from shotshells as he stated earlier

Heck, I deserve an F-, I can't find that in his post after rereading it.

[Hamish]

Heck, I deserve an F-, I can't find that in his post after rereading it.

Weve all had a long previous conversation that you missed. Literally, the only way for him to acquire smokeless is to break down shotshells.

[Walter Laich]

now that is hard-core!

[Tracy]

AJG Sir you might want to have a look at making your own black powder,

He's trying, without much luck as yet.
AJG, can you get 20 gauge shells? They use a powder that is slower and more applicable to .357 Mag loads. .410 shells even more so; they use the same powders as magnum revolver cartridges.

[JimB..]

AJG, why would you shoot a 9mm projectile (presumably .355 diameter) vs a projectile that fits the barrel a bit better? Have you slugged the barrel?

Also, did you consider adjusting the case capacity by seating the bullet deeper rather than trimming the brass? Maybe try a 38special
wadcutter if you can get a mold. I only suggest this because I understand that obtaining components is a challenge and hate to see you cut up your brass.

[jmorris]

AJG, why would you shoot a 9mm projectile (presumably .355 diameter) vs a projectile that fits the barrel a bit better?

You get the same reading comprehension grade I got. Post #3, he doesn't have a choice.

[JimB..]

You get the same reading comprehension grade I got. Post #3, he doesn't have a choice.

Dang it, I'll take a turn in the corner.

I wonder if swaging up an existing bullet is legal? Small piece of plate steel drilled at .358, a hardened top punch and a rounded punch might do the trick.

I'm assuming that his accuracy is poor and that he'd like to improve it, I could be wrong.

[Walkingwolf]

9mm rimmed used to be sold as factory ammunition by Federal. They stopped when old gun blew up from numpties using the ammo in guns not designed for it. IIRC Charter arms sold a gun that was designed for the round.

No need to cut down a 357 though, 38 spl case will work just the same.

[Tracy]

9mm rimmed used to be sold as factory ammunition by Federal. They stopped when old gun blew up from numpties using the ammo in guns not designed for it. IIRC Charter arms sold a gun that was designed for the round.

No need to cut down a 357 though, 38 spl case will work just the same.

I-frame .38 S&W? IJ top break in .38 S&W? Trying to imagine a gun that would chamber that, and blow up from the overpressure.
I thought they discontinued it simply because people stayed away in droves. Since it offered zero advantages and several disadvantages when compared to .38 Special.

[Multigunner]

The possibility of damaging or destroying older top break .38 S&W revolvers if the 9mm rimmed were fired in them was a stated concern, but I don't know that there were any such incidents.

Some claimed that the smaller diameter of the 9mm bullet compared to the generous bore size of those older .38 S&W pistols (.360 or much larger) allowed for enough blowby to greatly reduce stress on the cylinder, but I wouldn't want to risk it. Some of the WW2 contracted British .380/200 chambered pistols were built using the standard .357-358 bore size used for .38 special versions of those revolvers. The tighter bore being credited with improving accuracy over that of the Webley with its .363 or larger bore.

I have seen an old offbrand top break .38 S&W with frame fractured from firing a 9X19 cartridge, so it could happen.
I've also seen a IJ .32 top break revolver damaged by firing .32 ACP cartridges when it had been rechambered for that round. The frame didn't crack but the latch pin bent and the posts on the frame were deformed.

The Israelis made a few S&W Model 10 clones chambered for the 9X19 cartridge. The standard 9mm cartridge available to them was one intended for the longer barrels of SMGs and used a slow burning powder that did not burn completely in pistol barrels so pressures stayed within reason.

Some have reported successfully firing .357 magnum rounds in the old .38 long Colt revolvers. The straight bored cylinders and larger bore preventing full pressure build up. Again I wouldn't trust it.

Years ago a member of another board posted on the difficulty in obtaining cartridges in common sporting calibers in his country. They could not import ammunition so owners of Winchester 92 rifles were converting them to use .45 ACP ammunition of which millions of rounds of surplus ammo and reloadable cases were for some reason available there at the time. Some other types of rifles were also being converted to 9X19 for small and medium game.

[Pinsnscrews]

Would it be possible to paperpatch the jacketed bullets?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The possibility of damaging or destroying older top break .38 S&W revolvers if the 9mm rimmed were fired in them was a stated concern, but I don't know that there were any such incidents.

I don't know if there were any, but there surely could have been. There are worse .38S&W guns around than the Iver Johnsons. It has always beaten me why the .38S&W lost out to the .38 Special, and people have gone on using pocket revolvers for moderate loads with cylinders longer than they need to be. The 9mm. Federal could have permitted a short-cylinder revolver with considerably more power.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Dang it, I'll take a turn in the corner.

I wonder if swaging up an existing bullet is legal? Small piece of plate steel drilled at .358, a hardened top punch and a rounded punch might do the trick.

I'm assuming that his accuracy is poor and that he'd like to improve it, I could be wrong.

That ought to do it. A 7/8in. UNF bolt, or some Volvo truck wheel studs, would fit a reloading press. 9.1mm. is .35827in., and while reamers are expensive in such special sizes, 9.1mm. twist drills are available fairly cheaply on eBay. If you drill first to 9mm., and then use a 9.1mm. drill with the corners rounded off, you should get a very accurate and smooth hole.

The top punch could be done with drills and the front end of a 10mm. tungsten carbide burr. You ought to leave a slight step at the bottom of the punch, or it may chip. If you have a bench drill but no lathe, clamp a block of steel, drill an accurate 9mm. hole, and epoxy a piece of steel rod in place to be drilled with the nose depression.