WidenersInline FabricationLoad DataMidSouth Shooters Supply
Reloading EverythingRepackboxRotoMetals2Lee Precision
Titan Reloading
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 68 of 68

Thread: Paper cap and ball cartridges

  1. #61
    Banned bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,456
    My path is going well with zig zag cig papers. I like the already gummed rice paper. Tough and yet easily ignited.

    Mine also have the "tail" on them when I am finished. On the bottom of the taper, instead of a "cap" being glued on, I simply leave a bit left over and fold up on the tapered case.

    Little trick I use is I begin my roll with my tapered mold being kitty cornered with the tapered end pointed at the gummed corner. This leaves a "pointed" tail on the small end which as said above, gets folded over onto the case body with the gummed tip glueing the tip onto the cartridge body.

    Doing mine this way, I can "ROLL" many many in a short order. I can make tapered flat bottomed cartridges per 50 in about 1/2hour. Then powdering them and twisting the tail in another 1/2 hour.

    Here is another place I differ from others. I learned that a company back in the day dunked the ball end in lube and this provides enough for what is needed. The lube consists of 6 or 7 parts bee wax to 1 part beef or venison tallow. Mine is 6 to 1 bee wax/beef tallow or plain old Vasoline. This lube crumbles a bit when loading ... but enables easy loading and lubricating enough to keep on shooting as long as I wish with good to great accuracy. And no mess.

    As to unburned paper in the chambers ... I have them all the time with never a problem. They are not cumulative and the left bits get sucked out on the next shot.

    When I do clean, I disassemble the revolver and soak the cylinder without the nipples in and of coarse the nipples and barrel in warm not hot water/Dawn dish soap. The bits of leftover paper soak out easy peasy with just the bore brush cleaning them out of the soaked cylinder.

    All in all, I encourage piddlin with em till ya getz a system that works for YOU and your revolver'S.

    BIG FUN!!!

  2. #62
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,785
    May be a bit late to this party but I have something I would like to add that may be of interest, I have recently found what I think to be the perfect glue for making cartridges. "Duco" (made by Devcon and sold on Amazon) adhesive when dried burns even faster (a LOT faster) than properly nitrated paper thus leaving no residue after firing. Years ago I noticed that the glued parts of the paper seemed to be the main problem causing unburned residue but now I never have anything left in the chambers but normal fouling. Of course as others said at the start of this thread this unburned residue is not really a problem but for me I would much rather avoid it completely and now I manage to do just that.

    As an added note to anyone trying to avoid the unburned residue proper paper is a must. Cigarette paper has been treated to burn slowly for obvious reasons and so would not be my first choice, they seem to work really good if someone doesn't care about unburned paper being left but for me I choose to use something that burns quickly and completely. Some time back I settled on nitrated coffee filters and the burn is so complete that now I use nothing else, the key to this is properly nitrating this paper. Some have said doing this is too much trouble and for some maybe so but really it's not hard to do at all nor is it complicated, stump remover (the KNO3 type!) and water is all that's needed. In a lot of discussions about nitrating paper the complaints we mostly see is the scaly residue left on the paper and extra gunk left after burning but these problems are very easy to avoid by using PROPERLY nitrated paper.

    To use the very successful method I use to make clean burning nitrated paper you simply boil the water first (Boiling the water is a MUST to properly dissolve the KNO3!) then add the KNO3 to the hot boiled water, add only as much as will be dissolved and NO MORE than that, adding too much nitrate and using cold water are the two mistakes that causes the process to fail and lead to crusty, flaky and poorly burning paper. The paper itself need merely to be dunked in the solution for a minute or so then laid out to dry with no need to boil the paper itself, I did a lot of experimentation and found no advantage at all to boiling the paper in the solution as opposed to just dipping it in a cool solution. Boil a cup or two of water and add the nitrate then dip coffee filter paper and let dry, it really is as simple as that. If done right pieces of test paper will burn with a distinct hissing sound and if twisted tightly into a "roll" it will actually burn much faster than just a flat piece, applying the Duco adhesive and allowing it to dry you will find the glued parts to burn faster still and the glue will burn with no detectable residue!

    One more thing, using a microwave oven is just fine for boiling the water but DON'T try to microwave the solution after KNO3 has been added!!! That is unless you would like to see fireworks in your oven, please don't ask how I know this.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    4,535
    Thanks for the reminder on the nitrate process. FIL and I did it that way many years ago, but, I forgot about the boiling part. We used cigarette papers and plastic model cement (not sure if it is the same formula these days).

    He also experimented with 'white' powder instead of black, but, never got the cake/corn process to work right.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,785
    The Duco brand seems to be the same as or very similar to old type plastic model cement and it will dissolve/soften some plastics just like the old stuff, for sure it burns very aggressively wet or dry.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
    a.squibload's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,156
    "Dowel rod"?
    I used a stick.

    Forgot you're supposed to trim the paper, I use the "end papers" at an angle, glue the point to the side,
    drop a lubed wad (beeswax & crisco) on top of the powder, drop in ball, long twist for a handle, works fine.
    Easy to clean up later.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,785
    I have been wondering about the twisted end method since I had never done it that way myself but seems like so far here there have only been good things said about it. When you say "long twist for a handle" I am assuming you mean on the bullet end? A twist on both ends maybe? Would seem that with a properly fitting bullet the paper would be sheared off so it could then be thrown away, is that your method? Since I started using that adhesive I mentioned above I don't bother with "capping" the bottom of the paper tube anymore, I simply wrap the paper around the dowel and leave enough on the bottom to fold over (I leave just enough paper for the fold to seal the end) and then put a drop of adhesive on that folded end. The glue when dried makes for a fairly hard bottom end and with the stiff glued seam it ends up being a much more durable cartridge than when using the stick glue and bottom cap made from a disk of cigarette or coffee filter paper. It might seem like it would cause ignition problems with that hard glued and folded bottom but when it's done that way using the Duco glue I have yet to have a problem with ignition using that method.

    Duco glue completely changed the way I look at doing paper cartridges, before with curling or cigarette papers I would always have bits of unburned paper left in the chambers and while that doesn't seem to really be a problem I just felt it would be better if all the paper was burned. Switching to the nitrated coffee filter paper almost solved the problem but test burning some of the cartridge tubes showed that the glued areas appear to have difficulty with burning completely but the Duco glue solved that.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    4,535
    Your experiences are the same as what we had.

    One thing we did a little different sometimes was to just put the powder in the paper. Load paper/powder separate from bullet. We only shot round ball so not too big a deal.

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
    a.squibload's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,156
    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    I have been wondering about the twisted end method since I had never done it that way myself but seems like so far here there have only been good things said about it. When you say "long twist for a handle" I am assuming you mean on the bullet end? A twist on both ends maybe? Would seem that with a properly fitting bullet the paper would be sheared off so it could then be thrown away, is that your method? Since I started using that adhesive I mentioned above I don't bother with "capping" the bottom of the paper tube anymore, I simply wrap the paper around the dowel and leave enough on the bottom to fold over (I leave just enough paper for the fold to seal the end) and then put a drop of adhesive on that folded end. The glue when dried makes for a fairly hard bottom end and with the stiff glued seam it ends up being a much more durable cartridge than when using the stick glue and bottom cap made from a disk of cigarette or coffee filter paper. It might seem like it would cause ignition problems with that hard glued and folded bottom but when it's done that way using the Duco glue I have yet to have a problem with ignition using that method.

    Duco glue completely changed the way I look at doing paper cartridges, before with curling or cigarette papers I would always have bits of unburned paper left in the chambers and while that doesn't seem to really be a problem I just felt it would be better if all the paper was burned. Switching to the nitrated coffee filter paper almost solved the problem but test burning some of the cartridge tubes showed that the glued areas appear to have difficulty with burning completely but the Duco glue solved that.
    Yeah I fold the powder end & glue it to the side (like you do), then when all the stuff is in it I twist the ball end,
    sticks out an inch or more like a handle to pull it out of the cartridge box. Shove the cartridge in the cylinder, put a
    finger on the ball & tear off the twist. It doesn't tear clean but gets sheared off anyway when seating the ball.
    I find unburned paper sometimes but it doesn't seem to be a problem.

    Charlie b: sounds like a good idea, was thinking of doing that for the Hawken, wind won't blow the powder away.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check