Lyman 310 Swap thread

[kopcicle]

While I'm here and doing nothing else, how about a fool's errand of sorts?

WTT for a Lyman tru-line Jr top plate. I haven't got a whole lot to trade but ...

Or
Can anyone supply accurate dimensions of the Tru-Line Jr top plate?
I need OD, ID of the center hole, and (here's the tough one) the hole circle diameter.
Hopefully I'll have one here before the decade is out and I won't need the help.
I have a press on the way but curiously it's missing the top plate.
One of the usual suspects here has some 6061 drops in 5" which should be good enough.

I don't yet have the need to bore 7/8-14 since I just had a bit of a 5/8-30 windfall.
The small dies are going to take a minute to sort out as nearly all of them have little or no identification.
I know where the "magic decoder(s)" are, and they have been useful when identifying the 310 dies.
However, what do you do when there are no markings? That's a puzzle for another time.

[Eddie Southgate]

If making a plate make it 7/8-14 and use the 7/8-14 / 5/8-30 Lyman insert. Or make your own .

[kopcicle]

Four of one and five of the other?
As soon as I get the hole diameter base circle, and see if my dispenser of odds and ends material comes through.
Why not both?
The adapters will be easy enough to make one I clear this one last nagging job.

[Green Frog]

Kopcicle, the 310 dies I’ve most often encountered with no markings have been Universal Decappers, which by their very nature will not need caliber markings, I’ve also seen dies with one, two, or three digit application codes either on the side of the die body or less frequently stamped around the upper edge of the die. The numbers on case mouth expander plugs and seater die plugs indicate mouth diameter and bullet nose shape respectively, and those dies, especially the seater dies, may be a little cryptic to identify. Let me know if I can help.
BTW, I have the unaltered turret plate I took off of my TL Jr when I put on the altered plate with one 7/8X14 station, but I haven’t decided yet how well that will work, so I’m not quite ready to give up the original yet. Oddly, I do have a spare turret for a Red Head press (same threads but different function) that was given to me by CC Johnson’s grandson years ago. That press is an oddball as it only has 3 die stations and goes down over a guide rod instead of having the spring stop of the Lyman.
Message me if I can help you sort your plunder.
Froggie

[kopcicle]

And cigar boxes of dies to come.

[kopcicle]

And yet another one on the way?! Do they come in bunches?

I may be on the hunt for more dies...

[kopcicle]

I recently got inundated with odd, old, weird, and curiously effective reloading tools.
Remember the Ideal Lyman 310 combo and nutcracker tools?
How about the Lyman Tru-Line Jr? It came with multiple die plates milled, drilled, threaded, for 5/8"-30TPI as well as standard 7/8"-14TPI. This gave me some ideas as I have a mill and a lathe.
Then a brother from another mother shows up with a second Tru-Line Jr and a bag of dies.
This just hours after I found another Tru-Line Jr on a local gun board for $40.
I'm beginning to wonder if these things breed in shipping or just come in bunches.
I now have a combo tool for brother's 32-20, original, 1884 pat date.
A 30 U.S. (30-40 Krag) tool that now has .303 dies living in it for her custom Martini-Enfield
A .270 win nutcracker for neck sizing adventures at the range.
Die sets for 32-20, .303, .270, 45ACP, 38-357, 6.5x55, and I still have to go through a bag of jellybeans.

It's been an interesting week.

[kopcicle]

Because I know more than a few people stop by here for various reasons I have to ask...

Years ago I loaded "cat sneeze" loads for an impromptu, improvised indoor home range made from single 0 buckshot. This was fine for the Ruger 32-32H&R single six.
Since I don't have any 00 buck here at the moment I was wondering if anyone has tried to push a 00 through a .3125" - .314" sizer in either a press or the hand tools.
I'd probably load it with a "lube booger" fabric or felt wad behind it just to keep the bore wet.

We have 32ACP, 32 S&W long, 32 H&R, 32-20, and, .303 British here so ...

Just a thought.

[dsh1106]

I recently got inundated with odd, old, weird, and curiously effective reloading tools.
Remember the Ideal Lyman 310 combo and nutcracker tools?
How about the Lyman Tru-Line Jr? It came with multiple die plates milled, drilled, threaded, for 5/8"-30TPI as well as standard 7/8"-14TPI. This gave me some ideas as I have a mill and a lathe.
Then a brother from another mother shows up with a second Tru-Line Jr and a bag of dies.
This just hours after I found another Tru-Line Jr on a local gun board for $40.
I'm beginning to wonder if these things breed in shipping or just come in bunches.
I now have a combo tool for brother's 32-20, original, 1884 pat date.
A 30 U.S. (30-40 Krag) tool that now has .303 dies living in it for her custom Martini-Enfield
A .270 win nutcracker for neck sizing adventures at the range.
Die sets for 32-20, .303, .270, 45ACP, 38-357, 6.5x55, and I still have to go through a bag of jellybeans.

It's been an interesting week.

If you didn't know, the 5/8-30 thread on these Lyman tools isn't actually 5/8 (.625), it's actually .608/.609 diameter just shy of 33/64s. I've made a lot of replacement parts for Lyman tools over the years and most of them were odd ball sizes, apparently this was their way of keeping other companies from copying the designs. I actually have a tap that is correct for cutting the threads for the 310 tools. If you ever need the internal threads in the handle, rings or tool head cleaned up, let me know.

[Green Frog]

Scott,
The story I got was that the 30 tpi thread is an artifact from the earliest days of Ideal, before thread sizes were standardized industry-wide. Even after machine threads became standardized, Ideal and then Lyman retained their existing threads because they had used them for so long. At least that’s the tale that was told to me many years ago, so I’m sticking with it.
BTW, the Australian version of the “small dies” look the same at first glance, but upon measuring them, they have some sort of pipe threads! When Col Narramore designed the Red Head press though, he kept the Lyman threads. Trivia, trivia, trivia.
Froggie

[uscra112]

I'm sure that's true, Froggie. Long ago I was in the used machine tool business, and we ran up against this kind of thing occasionally. Standardization wasn't enforced until WW1, when the Army got fed up with the chaos.

'Nother factoid is that in the era when John Barlow worked, machinists talked about /64ths the way we think in thousandths. A micrometer, if they even had one, was often a hefty bench device.

And there being no widely accepted market supplying tools, standards were set by whatever the shop superintendent liked. Every factory made its' own milling cutters, for example. And of course taps and dies. Hence the exalted job title of toolmaker.

[dsh1106]

Scott,
The story I got was that the 30 tpi thread is an artifact from the earliest days of Ideal, before thread sizes were standardized industry-wide. Even after machine threads became standardized, Ideal and then Lyman retained their existing threads because they had used them for so long. At least that’s the tale that was told to me many years ago, so I’m sticking with it.
BTW, the Australian version of the “small dies” look the same at first glance, but upon measuring them, they have some sort of pipe threads! When Col Narramore designed the Red Head press though, he kept the Lyman threads. Trivia, trivia, trivia.
Froggie

Yes Sir Mr. Frog - that was the same story floodgate relayed to me about a decade and a half ago about the TPIs that Lyman used on their tools, my assumption was base on the diameter of the threads, which was answered by uscra112 in his factoid.

[kopcicle]

Scott,
I have had the Machinery's Handbook out with thread wires in hand to verify this recently.
I wasn't quite through with what I had found but all of you pretty well summed it up.
I don't take anything for granted when it comes to old tech.
I had most of my dies at .610" ish.
Measuring the internal threads was going to have to wait.

I had a long conversation with Dave Matteson the other day and we managed to simplify a few things while possibly getting a good oilite/bronze bush in his replacement turrets.
I was about to order up a 5/8-30 tap when I decided to measure.
I ordered 01 tool steel instead. I'll just make my own.
Think I'll include a pilot as well as lead (roughing) finish and knurl all on the same tap.
I always did like swaged threads in 60xx aluminum when the threads were going to get used repeatedly.

[GONRA]

GONRA made 5/8-30 threaded sizing dies (OK - not REALLY quite 5/8 !!)
many decades ago on my Trusty Boyhood 12 inch Craftsman lathe.
>>> (30 TPI is NOT on the Thread Chart but you can figger it out...) <<<

Lateron, made a 7/8-14 //"5/8-30" adapter for my
Shiney New Hollywood Senior Press.

[kopcicle]

Yup, The atlas/craftsman/atlas/clausing does indeed spec a 30 TPI.

[Green Frog]

Yup, The atlas/craftsman/atlas/clausing does indeed spec a 30 TPI.

I think one will find in many cases that it’s easier to do 30 tpi on a switch gear late than a quick change lathe… you just need the proper gear for the gear train. With a quick change, if the needed dimension isn’t on the table, you have to partially disassemble the head and change one or more gears that don’t like to be changed.
Froggie

[kopcicle]

change one or more gears that don’t like to be changed.
Froggie

Exactly. Those gears are sometimes referred to as range gears. (at least grandpop said). Unlike a change gear lathe these mating gears are somewhat more backlash sensitive.

With my change gear lathe I've just learned to accept the backlash and move on.

I recently had to deal with a thread timing issue that required me to eliminate all lash from the threading tool point all the way back to the spindle. I now have an extension off my lead screw with a period/model correct hand wheel for the expressed purpose of backing up all the lash between the half nuts and the spindle.
I was unable to chamber ream with the barrel installed in the receiver so the threads had to be timed exactly.
I was able to get this done within acceptable barrel torque. Surprise the heck out of me. Maths for the win!
Now to get the process written out so someone besides me can understand it.

[kopcicle]

Okay I'm back with another silly question.
This isn't for a lack of information but a case of too much.

What is the number or identification for the bullet seating die for the 30-30?
If I'm reading the old chart correctly the screw is a 241, but what do I screw it into?
Maybe if someone would show me how to correctly read the chart I won't have to ask again.
https://www.castpics.net/subsite/Lym...kReference.jpg

[jrmartin1964]

What is the number or identification for the bullet seating die for the 30-30?
If I'm reading the old chart correctly the screw is a 241, but what do I screw it into?

The bullet seating die (officially known as the Double Adjustable, or D.A., die) you are looking for will be marked on the body with the number 13.

Jim

[Green Frog]

Kopcicle, if you will PM me your e-mail address, I’ll send you a copy of of an article written by a semi-famous amphibian that simplifies the answer to your question. The number on top of the screw-in insert simply identify the bullet nose it fits.
Froggie