Winchester 1885 in 45-90 smokeless reloading thread + pics

[Just Duke]

I am again oogling another period style rifle in 45-90. I have read on another website that sells them you can shoot 45-70 in this rifle chambered for 45-90?

If not possible to do this accurately then could I ask a good load for the 45-90 with 405 grain and/or 485 grain with smokeless powder?

I also have a Leatherwood scope lined up for her.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=121&cat=014C

[Doc Highwall]

You might want to look carefully as to witch 45-90 you look at. I have both a Browning and a Winchester in 45-90 with 34" barrels like the picture you posted. Some of these guns have 30" barrels and also some do not come with sights. As to a scope for this I would recommend a MVA with the mil dot and in 23" length. One last recommendation, if you are only interested in smokeless powder loads I would buy a Browning BPCR in 45-70 instead. For long range shooting with black powder the 45-70 is still capable of shooting to 1000yds. After having a gun that shoots say one minute of angle at 1000yds what really makes the difference is knowing how to read the wind, that is what separates the masters from the wannabees. IMHO I think that the 45-70 is the way to go and is one of the reasons it is so popular.

[Gussy]

The photo is of the creedmoor version with badger barrel. There is also a 3rd version with Jap barrel. It has a crecent butt plate. The one photo'd is a great shooter with black powder and 500+ grain bullets.

45-70 in a 45-90. Yes it can be done..... BUT..... it will probably ruin the rifles chamber if done much. Accuracy will likely be terrible as there will be a long jump from the case to the rifling. This is nothing like a 38-357 thing.

[Doc Highwall]

That is the one I was talking about, it looks like the traditional hunter with a 30" barrel.

[Gussy]

Doc,
There is one out now that is a BPCR like the Creedmoor but with a 30" badger barrel and NO sights at all.

3 version of 45-90. 2 BPCR badger barreled (30" & 34") with shot gun butt stock and one had a 34" barrel in 45-90 but was the hunter version. Short tang sight, Jap barrel.

[Doc Highwall]

Thanks Gussy, I know you have one of the creedmoors yourself and they are a pleasure to shoot. I just wanted Duke N. to realise that they are in more then one configuration. I have two 45-90's one buy Browning and one buy Winchester. I also have three of the BPCR'S one in 45-70 and two in 40-65, one of witch I am going to put on one of the MVA scopes with the mil dot in the 23" version so it has enough elevation to shoot to 1000yds. I also have a Winchester traditional hunter in 38-55 and Browning in 30-30, two Browning lowwalls in 357mag. and a Winchester lowwall in 22lr. And last but not least I have two Browning lowwalls the regular hunting guns in 223Rem. and the 260Rem. I guess you can say I like my single shot rifles. Now you know why I call myself Doc Highwall.

[Gussy]

Doc, Did you look in my safe?? That list isn't too far off from mine. I did sell the 38-55 I had. I may turn the highwall (original, rebarreled) into a 38-55 if I don't sell it next month.
Gus

[Doc Highwall]

Gussy, did you ever notice that great minds think alike. I saw that you also do cabinet making, reminds me when I use to do that for a living too. What case length are you going to chamber it for the long original or the newer shorter. If I was going to do it I would go with the shorter one then I could always buy the long cases and trim them to the optimum length. In my 357mag lowwall I use the 200gr. rifle bullets with AA9 powder.

[Doc Highwall]

Duke, sorry to get sidetracked but I think a 45-70 would be the best because the smaller case capacity will give you more uniform burning aka accuracy with smokless powder and still be able to shoot competively at 1000yds with black powder if you wanted to. A good book on this is Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West, by Mike Venturino. I hope this helps you out. I use SR4759 and AA5744 in my loads.

[montana_charlie]

I am again oogling another period style rifle in 45-90. I have read on another website that sells them you can shoot 45-70 in this rifle chambered for 45-90?

If not possible to do this accurately then could I ask a good load for the 45-90 with 405 grain and/or 485 grain with smokeless powder?

Usually, when a guy decides on a 45/90 over a 45/70, it's because he intends to shoot long range...and wants some extra steam.
But your bullet choices are not long range bullets.

If you don't plan to shoot 1000 yards, the 45/70 would probably serve you well, and you wouldn't be troubled by thoughts such as shooting 45/70 loads in a longer chamber...or hamstringing a 45/90 powerhouse rifle by downloading to 45/70 carbine ballistics.
CM

[only1asterisk]

I would say that, if you don't mind giving a little on the low end vs. the 45-70, there really isn't any reason not to load the 45-90 with smokeless. The highwall is plenty strong and there are several powders that lend themselves to to this application. The one real caveat is that by the time you are burning smokeless loads effectively you are going to be driving 450-470 grain bullets 1900+ fps.
I'd want one with the shotgun buttplate!

David

[Just Duke]

My post got deleted some how. huh?


Well looks like I need to stay with the 45-70. But these are not made in 45-70. Again looks like Winchester dropped the ball. Bad enough I have to send my 3 1886 rifles off to Turnbulls and get the goofy safeties welded up at $200.00 a pop.
I have never messed with black powder and not about to start. Not much bang for my buck either. Nothing personal, just not that much patience anymore.
Guess I'm done with this venture........

[Just Duke]

Here is another thing....
When i load for a rifle I will get 1000 to 2000 rounds of ammo loaded per rifle.
I am told I cannot store any large amounts of BP and good reason why too.
Also wouldn't want that many loaded rounds of BP store in my dwelling.

[Doc Highwall]

Duke N, just look for a Browning 1885 Highwall in the BPCR. They were made in 40-65 and 45-70 only. They have a 30" barrel, pistol grip, and a shotgun buttplate just like you want. The only differance between them and the picture you posted is that the 45-90 was made with a 34" barrel to burn the extra Black Powder. I have three of these one in 45-70 and two in 40-65, IMHO I think this is what you are looking for. Check out Gun Broker etc. etc. Somebody even just sold one here on cast boolits. BPCR stands for Black Powder Cartridge Rifle.

[Just Duke]

Duke N, just look for a Browning 1885 Highwall in the BPCR. They were made in 40-65 and 45-70 only. They have a 30" barrel, pistol grip, and a shotgun buttplate just like you want. The only differance between them and the picture you posted is that the 45-90 was made with a 34" barrel to burn the extra Black Powder. I have three of these one in 45-70 and two in 40-65, IMHO I think this is what you are looking for. Check out Gun Broker etc. etc. Somebody even just sold one here on cast boolits. BPCR stands for Black Powder Cartridge Rifle.

Thanks Doc that is exactly what I'm looking for! Cool beans!!! My quest has resumed!!!

[Just Duke]

Saw some on Gun Broker Doc but they all had a strait stock. I was looking for one with a pistol grip. Did Browning make one with a pistol grip Doc?

[Just Duke]

http://www.coon-n-crockett.org/bpcr.jpg

[Doc Highwall]

Duke N., Yes that is the only way the they made THE BPCR with a 30" half octagon half round barrel made by Badger, pistol grip, steel shotgun butt plate, and all came with a soule rear sight with three eye cup apertures sizes and a aperture front sight with eight inserts in calibers 40-65 and 45-70 only. Then they made a special model called the Creedmoor model only in caliber 45-90 except it had a 34" barrel by Badger, and made only approximately 330 by Browning. Now Winchester through Davidson's has made 126 of these in the Creedmoor configuration. All of the others have straight grip stocks with a curved steel rifle butt plate and barrels made in Japan are in the Traditional Hunter configuration with a tang sight like the one made by Marbles, not a soule style. I hope this helps you out. Also I see some 1885's made by Winchester with out sights in 45-90 with a 30" barrel, and even a model called the Trapper with 16.5" barrels. Just remember only Browning made the BPCR in 45-70 and 40-65, and IMHO I still would only recommend that. Doc Highwall.

[dakota]

Old thread, I know, but still interesting. I have a couple 45-70's and a 45-90 1885 with spendy sights. It's the BPCR with Badger barrel. I plan on taking that 45-90 prairie dog shooting in August with either 400gr or 500 grain cast. I have some 500 grain cast (and mold) that my brother used in BPCR competition. My 400 grain mold is a basic RN with GC.

I have tried IMR3031, 5744 and some others including 4831 (don't remember which variety).

[oldred]

Old thread, I know, but still interesting.

Yep 12 years old but very interesting indeed to some of us! I don't know how I have missed this thread for so long, I thought I had dug up and read everything on the site pertaining to 45-90 but there it is. Thanks for digging that one up.

As far as powders I really like both AA2064 and Varget, both have worked well for me and for those who like a full case at reasonable pressures (like I do) these are just the ticket!